Camera Obscura (Germany)

[McCrutchy]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, but I have been following the Inferno release for some time. I think Arrow have released a fantastic overall package. However, when I saw the (now closed) thread that dealt (in part) with an as yet undated Camera Obscura Blu-ray release, there was something that I felt I needed to add, regardless of either edition's content or merits.

I noticed comments decrying Camera Obscura for not making their releases widely available and being otherwise elitist in their distribution. I had looked into Camera Obscura, and while information is difficult to find, it appears this is categorically untrue. Camera Obscura is one of a number of independent German and Austrian labels that release uncut German-friendly editions of films on DVD that have been indexed by the German FSK ratings board and are illegal to sell in Germany. This is why you do not see their releases available at Amazon Germany; they are however, readily available from various online shops based in Austria.

Because I am aware that this is really Arrow's forum, I will not link to any of their releases or information here. I want to make it clear that I am not in favor of one label over another.

I hope you will indulge this post, but this was something I wanted to make clear, as I did not appreciate the negative comments I read about either Camera Obscura or Arrow.

[The Reaper Man@Cult Labs]

I'm moving this to the Horror Banter section.
As you say this is the Arrow thread and this shouldn't be here.

[Peter Neal]

I didn't intend to comment on this, but...:
From my pov, the whole "Arrow vs Camera Obscura 'Inferno' releases" controversy wasn't so much the result of the CO's admittedly "niche by circumstance"-availability, but much rather by comments from "Camera Obscura" accompanying screen grabs of their release, openly suggesting to customers (in the German language territory*) NOT to get the Arrow release, but to hold on to their upcoming SE instead, which isn't exactly the most polite way of competition in a small market.

I have the Arrow SE and will very likely still pick up the CO release for the German dub and the additional extras, but I have to say their handling of the "comparisons" between the avaiable Arrow SE and theirs so far unreleased edition leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth

*
Here's a CO statement in German relating to my first paragraph:

Zitat:
Da nun mehr und mehr Reviews der UK Arrow Blu-ray/DVD aufgetaucht sind, sollte ich mal ein paar Worte zu unserem Transfer verlieren: Die Basis für sämtliche Veröffentlichungen ist exakt dieselbe, nämlich das HD-Transfer vom original Negativ, welches auch die Grundlage der Fox DVD aus Italien war. Das Transfer hat allerdings einige Schwächen, wie leichte Verschmutzungen sowie Farb- und Kontrastprobleme. Wir haben bei unserem Transfer den Großteil der Verschmutzungen beseitigt und das Transfer farbkorrigiert. Das fertige Master wurde dann Kameramann Romano Albani begutachtet und nach ein paar Korrekturen abgesegnet. Er hat auch ein Intro für uns gemacht, in dem er das und auch anderes erwähnt.

Zu den Extras: Wir sind in den letzten Zügen, die letzten Beteiligten des Films vor die Kamera zu zerren, und ich kann nur sagen, dass so gut wie jeder, der an dem Film maßgeblich beteiligt war, zu Wort kommen wird -- sowie ja auch die Filmgelehrten Christian Keßler, Marcus Stiglegger und Antonio Bruschini.

Angesichts der Tatsache, dass wir zeitlich hinter Arrow hinterherhinken, wollen wir nicht, dass die Ungeduldigen unter euch sich jetzt vorschnell mit UK-Importen eindecken... Wir versuchen, das beste Produkt weltweit zusammen zu stellen, was leider auch mit viel Arbeit und Zeit verbunden ist. Und die Scheiben kommen bald, keine Sorge.


INFERNO / HORROR INFERNAL (Dario Argento, 1980)

[nekromantik]

yeah I agree the way they went about it is bad.
They are also meant to be relesing Suspiria on blu with a "new master" which again they compared to the UK blu. I MIGHT be tempted to get Suspiria from them if it does turn out to be a better transfer.

[Peter Neal]

They do?
The last I read about the German language release of "Suspiria" concerned a DVD and Blu from another Austrian distributor who had to cancel?/postpone? the "Suspiria" release due to their German partner, who intended to release a censored "FSK approved" version for Germany's sellthrough market, going bankrupt.
I guess "Suspiria" will get its German territory rerelease at some point- but it's all still very much in the open as far as I understood.

[bdc]

Personally I understand that they wanted to sell their own release,but I think they should have handled it differently.
The whole thing also got blown up by others than CO (or Arrow) themselves imho.

I appreciate the fact that Almar himself didn't mind the discussion of the CO release but commented it should be moved to a different folder than the Arrow release.
Unfortunately the people who started the whole discussion wouldn't move it.

[Peter Neal]

Originally Posted by bdc

The whole thing also got blown up by others than CO (or Arrow) themselves imho.

That's certainly true and the previous CO releases are very fan-friendly packages indeed- that's particularly the reason why this whole thing really irritates me, as I didn't think they would have to resort to such cheap tactics in advance, not the least because there are reasonable amounts of German fans out there, who'll wait patiently for their SE in any case to get the German dub as well.

I didn't see "Another World Entetainment" going on about their "Inferno" release "being superior to 'Arrow's'", so I just hope that CO will mainly have their quality releases speak for themselves the next time releases of the same title by different companies are rising on the horizon...

[nekromantik]

oops sorry I got Wild Side mixed up with CO ha ha
ignore me

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Peter Neal

I didn't intend to comment on this, but...:
From my pov, the whole "Arrow vs Camera Obscura 'Inferno' releases" controversy wasn't so much the result of the CO's admittedly "niche by circumstance"-availability, but much rather by comments from "Camera Obscura" accompanying screen grabs of their release, openly suggesting to customers (in the German language territory*) NOT to get the Arrow release, but to hold on to their upcoming SE instead, which isn't exactly the most polite way of competition in a small market.


*
Here's a CO statement in German relating to my first paragraph:

Zitat:
Da nun mehr und mehr Reviews der UK Arrow Blu-ray/DVD aufgetaucht sind, sollte ich mal ein paar Worte zu unserem Transfer verlieren: Die Basis für sämtliche Veröffentlichungen ist exakt dieselbe, nämlich das HD-Transfer vom original Negativ, welches auch die Grundlage der Fox DVD aus Italien war. Das Transfer hat allerdings einige Schwächen, wie leichte Verschmutzungen sowie Farb- und Kontrastprobleme. Wir haben bei unserem Transfer den Großteil der Verschmutzungen beseitigt und das Transfer farbkorrigiert. Das fertige Master wurde dann Kameramann Romano Albani begutachtet und nach ein paar Korrekturen abgesegnet. Er hat auch ein Intro für uns gemacht, in dem er das und auch anderes erwähnt.

Zu den Extras: Wir sind in den letzten Zügen, die letzten Beteiligten des Films vor die Kamera zu zerren, und ich kann nur sagen, dass so gut wie jeder, der an dem Film maßgeblich beteiligt war, zu Wort kommen wird -- sowie ja auch die Filmgelehrten Christian Keßler, Marcus Stiglegger und Antonio Bruschini.

Angesichts der Tatsache, dass wir zeitlich hinter Arrow hinterherhinken, wollen wir nicht, dass die Ungeduldigen unter euch sich jetzt vorschnell mit UK-Importen eindecken... Wir versuchen, das beste Produkt weltweit zusammen zu stellen, was leider auch mit viel Arbeit und Zeit verbunden ist. Und die Scheiben kommen bald, keine Sorge.

This is interesting. I'm not very familiar with Camera Obscura's communications on the various German-language forums, but that is a shame if they have been encouraging others not to get the Arrow disc, as label-bashing should never be employed by anyone. Unfortunately, I do not undertand German, so perhaps they "hide" much of their negative comments within German posts.

[were]

Well, they just tell their German fans to wait for their release, because they have removed "dirt" from the original HD master and made some colour corrections. They even asked the cameraman for errors in their new master and fixed the ones he told them. Infact, importing movies from Austria is much cheaper (in most cases) and CO has got a fan base, that knows how much efford they put into their movies (and that totally doesn't care if they say, that other releases have their weak points). I wouldn't say, that their comment about the quality of their release was that rude, they used very objective formulations. It sounds harsh, but I totally isn't.