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-   -   Grotesque (2009) vs Serbian Movie (2010) Archive Thread (https://www.cult-labs.com/forums/2010s/1437-grotesque-2009-vs-serbian-movie-2010-archive-thread.html)

Angel 21st August 2009 06:33 AM

I think the fact that the BBFC pass 99% of films that come their way uncut means that they have very little concern about violence. In fact violence is no longer cut and only a certain type of sexual violence causes them concern. It's something they don't see much off either.

Angel 21st August 2009 06:39 AM

Actually I'm surprised the BBFC didn't cite the OPA when rejecting Grotesque because it definitely sounds like it would fall foul of this law ("corrupt and deprave").

vincenzo 21st August 2009 10:35 AM

Well said Angel. :nod:

Daemonia 21st August 2009 10:36 AM

But again, I ask, 'deprave and corrupt' who? Why can't the BBFC and their panel of experts actually define who it will 'deprave and corrupt'? That's my problem - there's this creation of a Boogeyman, that a film like this will cause danger out there...somewhere. They don't know where and to whom...but it might. So we start to move into the area of thought-crime or even anticipating criminal behaviour that hasn't happened yet.

So...my question to the BBFC is this: define exactly who will be affected? Although I can see in certain instances the link between sex and violence in films - most notably in scenes of rape, obviously, it doesn't create that correlation in me. For it to do that I would already have to have made that link within myself, to have connected to that concept. If I've already done that, then surely any scene depicting violence towards women would have the effect of arousing me. Wouldn't it? So just who are these dangerous people out there and - more importantly - have any sex crimes ever been committed as a result of watching a film like Grotesque?

Peter Neal 21st August 2009 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincenzo (Post 38864)
I wonder what the German & Australian censors will make of it?

Even though a cut-by-over-14 mins version of "Chaos" found its way on the shelves of German stores, nobody in their right mind would submit "Grotesque" to the German FSK, as it wouldn't stand a chance at all. It wouldn't pay off to get a "legal commission's" approval ("SPIO/JK geprüft" seal on the cover) for an edited cut either, as that other German censorship body- the BPJM- would put it instantly on their "B list" of the "Index of restricted Movies", which happened with mainstream fare like "Saw III and V" & "Hostel Part II", the latter has even been banned in a slightly cut version, with "SAW V" being cited as a likely canidate to follow soon, as the BPJM really rushed out this time in a hurry to stop the uncut version from being legally available for sale in Germany.:pout:


German fans have to import the uncut "Grotesque" in an expensive limited edition via Austria....:der:

Angel 21st August 2009 01:15 PM

I also doubt the film would fare at all well in Australia. They did pass I Spit on Your Grave uncut there but Grotesque sounds much stronger. They haven't even submitted Murder Set Pieces over there yet but again I can't see it passing. Presumably Grotesque would also be banned in Ireland. No doubt it would get an uncut 15 in Sweden. Norway are getting strict again so it might be banned here. I can see it having problems in New Zealand.

Angel 21st August 2009 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemonia (Post 38939)
and - more importantly - have any sex crimes ever been committed as a result of watching a film like Grotesque?

Certainly possible but it would be difficult to prove one way or the other.

Pete 21st August 2009 01:27 PM

To be honest as long as they keep passing older films like Caligula , Last House etc uncut i dont care if the bbfc rejects films like Grotesque.

By the way here is the Daily Mails view:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rror-film.html

Angel 22nd August 2009 07:49 AM

Grotesque is one of a number of very violent Japanese films (eg Toky Gore Police, Machine Girl etc) that have been submitted to the BBFC recently and there are more on the way. The uncut Ichi The Killer is also up for re-submission as well. Remains to be seen what happens there.

It would be nice to see the Guinea Pig films getting a release here as well.

Mojo 22nd August 2009 09:46 AM

There's no question the BBFC have moved on in leaps and bounds over the past few years and, indeed, it it highly unusual for them to cut a film these days, never mind ban it. I'd certainly have them over the MPAA or ( god forbid ) the German censors any day. I think it's ( yet again ) their inconsistancy here. Why is Grotesque suddenly more 'harmful' than Saw / Hostel / Martyrs and any other number of 18 rated movies that have featured extreme violence and / or sexual violence?

It's a similar situation to them passing Irreversable uncut, yet removing 16 seconds of fumbling from Tombs Of The Blind Dead. Or, indeed, Shameless' own Venus In Furs.

From what I've read and heard, this ban has been widely criticised by the general public, so the widespread public support for this action isn't there - including the Daily Mail's own website, interestingly enough.

Part of me ( the cynical bit! ) wonders if maybe Grotesque was a bit of a kneejerk reaction to recent pressure on the BBFC from certain quarters?

vincenzo 22nd August 2009 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel (Post 39072)
The uncut Ichi The Killer is also up for re-submission as well. Remains to be seen what happens there.

I can't see this passing intact (the nipple cutting being the main problem) but there'll be far less cuts than before.

Angel 22nd August 2009 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 39075)
There's no question the BBFC have moved on in leaps and bounds over the past few years and, indeed, it it highly unusual for them to cut a film these days, never mind ban it. I'd certainly have them over the MPAA or ( god forbid ) the German censors any day. I think it's ( yet again ) their inconsistancy here. Why is Grotesque suddenly more 'harmful' than Saw / Hostel / Martyrs and any other number of 18 rated movies that have featured extreme violence and / or sexual violence?

It's a similar situation to them passing Irreversable uncut, yet removing 16 seconds of fumbling from Tombs Of The Blind Dead. Or, indeed, Shameless' own Venus In Furs.

From what I've read and heard, this ban has been widely criticised by the general public, so the widespread public support for this action isn't there - including the Daily Mail's own website, interestingly enough.

Part of me ( the cynical bit! ) wonders if maybe Grotesque was a bit of a kneejerk reaction to recent pressure on the BBFC from certain quarters?

MoJo,

In films like Saw and Hostel, violent as they are, there is no sexual violence and very little in the way of sexualised violence, this is in contrast to what happens in Grotesque. Also in Saw/ Hostel, there are often fairly lengthy gaps between the violence. I know in the first Hostel, there was hardly any violence in the first half. In the case of Grotesque it would appear to be totally unremitting. Also Violence, sadism and sexual sadism for the sake of it. It's not surprising it fell foul of the VRA.

The reason the BBFC passed Irresversible uncut in 2002 was because there was nothing to cut. The rape scene did not focus on the woman's naked body like it clearly did in Tombs of the Blind Dead.

I'm glad that the general public are not suportive of the ban although I wonder how many of them have actually seen it.

To have passed Grotesque uncut would have put the BBFC in a difficult position as it would mean they would not be able to justify the cuts or bans to numerous other films in recent years which were all cut and banned for the same reason.

Mojo 22nd August 2009 12:16 PM

Thanks for the reply, angel. You have a good insight into the BBFC's workings and I always enjoy reading your posts.

I personally have been a big supporter of the BBFC in recent years and I understand why certain ( very few ) titles can run into problems. It really is unusual for a film to be cut, let alone banned these days, so maybe this is why this has caused such a stir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel (Post 39085)
I'm glad that the general public are not suportive of the ban although I wonder how many of them have actually seen it.

To have passed Grotesque uncut would have put the BBFC in a difficult position as it would mean they would not be able to justify the cuts or bans to numerous other films in recent years which were all cut and banned for the same reason.

I haven't seen Grotesque and I'm sure I can happily live my life without it, but I guess the public rejection of this is more based on the principle of being told which movie an adult can and cannot watch, which, let's be honest, has always bugged fans of the horror genre!

The BBFC's worry about justifying other cuts is interesting. My only worry is this could work the other way round and those advocating more censorship could point to Grotesque and argue why the BBFC could'nt have cut / banned other similar movies.

I applaud the BBFC for the way they have treated horror movies in recent years. I just hope this doesn't inadvertently lead to backward steps in future releases of films which, up until this point, would have remained uncut.

vincenzo 22nd August 2009 12:21 PM

Excellent post Mojo. :coolblue:

Angel 22nd August 2009 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 39087)
Thanks for the reply, angel. You have a good insight into the BBFC's workings and I always enjoy reading your posts..

Thanks, Mojo :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 39087)
I personally have been a big supporter of the BBFC in recent years and I understand why certain ( very few ) titles can run into problems. It really is unusual for a film to be cut, let alone banned these days, so maybe this is why this has caused such a stir

Nice to hear that you have been a supporter of the BBFC. It's not often you hear somebdoy saying that on these forums. When Ferman was around they used to ban so many films that people were probably just getting used to it but because the Board have now become so lenient it is true whenever they reject anything it tends to cause shockwaves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 39087)
The BBFC's worry about justifying other cuts is interesting. My only worry is this could work the other way round and those advocating more censorship could point to Grotesque and argue why the BBFC could'nt have cut / banned other similar movies.

Well they could but the BBFC could answer that question if it was addressed to them quite easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 39087)
I applaud the BBFC for the way they have treated horror movies in recent years. I just hope this doesn't inadvertently lead to backward steps in future releases of films which, up until this point, would have remained uncut.

I'm pretty sure that it won't. Prior to the rejection of Grotesque there has been no evidence that the BBFC have been getting stricter again. Just the opposite really. They really do seem to be making an effort to pass whatever they can.

I always watch whatever I can regarding what the BBFC cut and ban just to see if the cuts really are justifed. So far from what I have seen they all seem to check out. So I am looking forward to seeing Grotesque for this reason.

Mojo 22nd August 2009 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincenzo (Post 39088)
Excellent post Mojo. :coolblue:

Cheers, vincenzo :)

To be perfectly honest, the reason I have applauded the BBFC recently is mainly because of the way they are ( by and large ) treating people who watch 18 rated movies as responsible adults, rather than the patronising attitude of the Ferman era. I used to feel sorry for innovative companies such as Redemption back then, tracking down these rare cult movies, only to see Ferman & Co charge his extortionate fees and then hack them to pieces because he didn't like them. Thankfully, the present board seem to be a million miles from this nonsense.

In more recent times, I still don't agree with the cutting of Tombs Of The Blind Dead, for example. I think the UK would have survived without descending into chaos if it had remained intact. And anyway, everybody just went out and bought the uncut R1 release, making the cuts pointless and robbing ABUK of much needed income.

But, again, that was a few years ago and it's been pretty good form from the BBFC since then to say the least. So here's hoping they keep moving things forward in the way they have been and ignore the whingings of the likes of the Daily Mail, who rarely ( if ever ) watch any of the films they complain about. :crazy:

vincenzo 22nd August 2009 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 39117)
In more recent times, I still don't agree with the cutting of Tombs Of The Blind Dead, for example. I think the UK would have survived without descending into chaos if it had remained intact. And anyway, everybody just went out and bought the uncut R1 release, making the cuts pointless and robbing ABUK of much needed income.

Fully agree here. I didn't agree with the cuts to Tombs either though I could see why the BBFC made them. Without doubt though UK industry does suffer as a result of this. Thankfully the BBFC adopt these kind of policies only when they have to and, unlike the ghastly Ferman years, today they look for reasons NOT to cut films.

Daemonia 23rd August 2009 09:57 AM

Oh yes, please don't think I'm unhappy with the BBFC, by and large I think they do an excellent job in this day and age. Things are pretty much as they should be - I also think they have a decent attitude to horror and its fanbase, unlike under Ferman. They now realise we're not salivating maniacs (well, most of us aren't, anyway LOL) and understand that the gore in horror is purely of the fantasy variety. It's just that when they do cut or ban a film, I like to know the rationale behind such decisions. In this case, I'd like to know who they think will be harmed by a work such as Grotesque.

gag 21st March 2010 02:43 AM

Just fin watching grotesque.. not into these type of films in any sense
Imo i dont see the need for this type and style of film but each to there own.
Deffo not my cup of tea

alex s 21st March 2010 08:51 AM

Having recently caught up with asain gore films, can anyone recommend me some titles that i may have missed out on like Grotesque, Meat Grinder, Invitation Only, I am familiar with most of the recent jap splat.:confused:

nekromantik 22nd March 2010 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex s (Post 68382)
Having recently caught up with asain gore films, can anyone recommend me some titles that i may have missed out on like Grotesque, Meat Grinder, Invitation Only, I am familiar with most of the recent jap splat.:confused:

If ya wanna see a bit more "light hearted" jap gore then check out Machine Girl and Tokyo Gore Police. Both very bloody and violent but its more comic gore and not serious movies at all.

vincenzo 22nd March 2010 01:35 PM

Great fun films they are too. Tokyo Gore Police was the bloodiest but both films are daft & enjoyable entertainment.

Gojirosan 22nd March 2010 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekromantik (Post 68676)
If ya wanna see a bit more "light hearted" jap gore then check out Machine Girl and Tokyo Gore Police. Both very bloody and violent but its more comic gore and not serious movies at all.

I think I need to check these out. The trailers look gloriously mental!

Daemonia 22nd March 2010 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex s (Post 68382)
Having recently caught up with asain gore films, can anyone recommend me some titles that i may have missed out on like Grotesque, Meat Grinder, Invitation Only, I am familiar with most of the recent jap splat.:confused:

Try and get hold of Naked Blood. The basic premise is that a child prodigy creates a pain killer that does far more than numb the pain, it turns pain into pleasure. There's an auto-cannibalism scene which is truly horrific and you'll never want battered fish again! Although extreme in its depictions of self-mutilation, the film has an almost arthouse feel to it and the ending is surprisingly bleak and apocalyptic. Recommended if you have the stomach for it - one of the better Jap splat flicks IMO, this at least has a philosophy of sorts. I've no idea how this would fare at the BBFC though - the murder-whilst-copulating scene would probably push it over the bounds of current BBFC acceptability.

nekromantik 22nd March 2010 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincenzo (Post 68678)
Great fun films they are too. Tokyo Gore Police was the bloodiest but both films are daft & enjoyable entertainment.

Yeah plus the whole penis gun was like WTF! :eek:

alex s 22nd March 2010 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemonia (Post 68688)
Try and get hold of Naked Blood. The basic premise is that a child prodigy creates a pain killer that does far more than numb the pain, it turns pain into pleasure. There's an auto-cannibalism scene which is truly horrific and you'll never want battered fish again! Although extreme in its depictions of self-mutilation, the film has an almost arthouse feel to it and the ending is surprisingly bleak and apocalyptic. Recommended if you have the stomach for it - one of the better Jap splat flicks IMO, this at least has a philosophy of sorts. I've no idea how this would fare at the BBFC though - the murder-whilst-copulating scene would probably push it over the bounds of current BBFC acceptability.

preferred Organ to Naked Blood, but liked the All night Long series (there are 6 of them) the best

but for some intense extreme horror you should check out films by

Daisuke Yamanouchi
or
Tamakichi Anaru

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 22nd March 2010 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex s (Post 68732)
preferred Organ to Naked Blood, but liked the All night Long series (there are 6 of them) the best

but for some intense extreme horror you should check out films by

Daisuke Yamanouchi
or
Tamakichi Anaru

Unearthed Films have a great series of Daisuke Yamanouchi titles lined up. :cool:

alex s 22nd March 2010 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizarre_eye (Post 68738)
Unearthed Films have a great series of Daisuke Yamanouchi titles lined up. :cool:

Yeah i know there is talk that because they were shot on video that unearthed will release them unpixilated, will have to wait and see

alex s 22nd March 2010 07:08 PM

got this to watch tonight

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...heiki_mb06.jpg

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 22nd March 2010 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex s (Post 68739)
Yeah i know there is talk that because they were shot on video that unearthed will release them unpixilated, will have to wait and see

That would be great if they did! :happy:

Also Re: Grotesque getting banned in the UK; if anyone is searching for this uncut on R2, AWE have just released it.

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 22nd March 2010 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex s (Post 68741)

I've been meaning to see this - do tell me what it's like mate! :thumb: :nod:

nekromantik 24th March 2010 01:24 AM

I am quite interested in seeing Serbian Movie. Not sure why though :lol:

Angel 24th March 2010 07:23 AM

What is Serbian Movie about? Can't say I've heard of it. It's not on the IMDb.

nekromantik 24th March 2010 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel (Post 69138)
What is Serbian Movie about? Can't say I've heard of it. It's not on the IMDb.

Its about this porn actor who got retired from porn and is having money issues to support his family so he does another porn but dont realize what he gets himself into.

vincenzo 24th March 2010 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel (Post 69138)
What is Serbian Movie about? Can't say I've heard of it. It's not on the IMDb.

Here you go, Angel. Better known as Serbian Film. A bit thin on the ground for info though.

There's a better review of the film here.

Peter Neal 24th March 2010 12:23 PM

Regarding "Serbian Film": I've been following discussions on German boards regarding this one and it certainly appears to be the next "big taboo breaker" (though with a little more thought behind the "shocking bits" than the likes of AU and MSP).
As it's said to contain- apart from the "usual" graphic sexual violence- very disturbing scenes with a baby, I'll most likely pass:ack:...There's enough other "extreme horror" titles left to catch up with.:lol:

alex s 28th March 2010 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizarre_eye (Post 68743)
I've been meaning to see this - do tell me what it's like mate! :thumb: :nod:

Rika- zombie hunter.

a very enjoyable and gory romp from Japan, it is very much like Junk/Stacy rather than the cartoon gorefests more recently released like tokyo gore police etc.

It does make a pleasant change to see that Japan is still producing more "traditional" horror as well

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 28th March 2010 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex s (Post 70011)
Rika- zombie hunter.

a very enjoyable and gory romp from Japan, it is very much like Junk/Stacy rather than the cartoon gorefests more recently released like tokyo gore police etc.

It does make a pleasant change to see that Japan is still producing more "traditional" horror as well

Thanks alex. :) I really enjoyed both Junk and Stacy, so I'll definitely have to look into this one too. :nod:

alex s 2nd April 2010 06:25 AM

here is a trailer for Serbian movie

http://www.belgraded.com/video-reade...-movie-trailer

beware it's definietly NSFW

antmumford 2nd April 2010 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex s (Post 71156)
here is a trailer for Serbian movie

http://www.belgraded.com/video-reade...-movie-trailer

beware it's definietly NSFW

That looks awesome :thumb:


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