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-   -   Inferno - The BBFC Verdict (carry the chat about the BBFC on here only!) (https://www.cult-labs.com/forums/arrow-archives/2941-inferno-bbfc-verdict-carry-chat-about-bbfc-here-only.html)

Calum 1st June 2010 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almar@Cult Labs (Post 83334)
And let's leave it at that please. This cut is turning into an online debate nightmare! It's something many of you feel strongly about on either side which is absolutely fine but I don't want it to cause any fallouts so tongues may have to be bitten please.

After all - has no one any respect for the poor mouse? ;)

He had a chomping good time while he was here!

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 03:54 PM

So we're all happy again? For a bit anyway?

:pray:

It's like a scene out of a film where we all need to realise this cut is destroying us all! :fear:

We can't let it defeat us - I think until the BBFC come back with their final ruling there's not much more to be said. :nod:

Inspector Tanzi 1st June 2010 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calum (Post 83233)
You're not going to notice the five seconds of the cat eating the mouse

Of course you are if you've seen it before uncut, those that din't know any different won't.

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 04:23 PM

Safe to say though folks - out of any moment of the film that we could live without - this is it? Anyway the verdict isn't in so we're going round in circles here.

Philleh 1st June 2010 04:30 PM

Agreed, this is getting old now! :lol:

Hopefully we'll hear back sooner rather than later.

Nika 1st June 2010 05:20 PM

Now we begin the wait...hope the BBFC hurries up

nekromantik 1st June 2010 05:36 PM

Glad we got that out of the way :laugh:

Inspector Tanzi 1st June 2010 05:36 PM

End of the day if it gets passed uncut I will buy it 100% but not if it's cut.

also I feel I do support Arrow enough without people making me feel "obliged" to buy it.

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 07:30 PM

No one should feel obliged to buy anything - if they do there's no joy in the purchase.

Chat about to buy or not to buy based on a potential cut has been done to death on here so let's put that to bed because it makes for seriously tedious reading and only spoils a chance to celebrate a great horror film sorely missed on UK shelves since the 90s.

phelings 1st June 2010 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekromantik (Post 83298)
I so hope I got money for this come August.
I just seen the mouse scene and its nothing, wont be missed like people have been saying.
I not seen the movie but from what people have been saying it has nothing to do with the story so should not be a deal breaker.

Nobody has said it would be missed or that it was crucial - the bottom line is that the film will be a censored version.

As irritating as any cuts are I think the lack of an Inferno release elsewhere coupled with the package being put together aswell as simply seeing the film in HD may well be hard to resist come the day of release.

Like we have often done before , we make do with the best on offer at the time and while the extras for this release may mean the disc remains forever in my collection I have no doubt that I will buy an uncut version of the film when or if it appears - 5 seconds or not

Inspector Tanzi 2nd June 2010 03:50 PM

I got a reply from the BBFC just now:

Dear Aarron

Thank you for your email and interesting comments.

I should point out that no decision has been made about INFERNO. We have not classified this work, and it would not be appropriate to comment on a title under consideration.

As you know, the BBFC has a statutory obligation under the Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act 1937 to ensure that no scene "was organised or directed in such a way as to involve the cruel infliction of pain or terror on any animal or the cruel goading of any animal to fury" in regards to works intended for cinema release in the UK. The same consideration is also given to works released on video and DVD. This approach was endorsed by the Home Office at the time of the designation of the Video Recording Act 1984 and subsequently supported by legal opinion.

The BBFC takes its legal obligations very seriously. If our examiners have any doubts or concerns over the treatment of animals in the works they view, assurances of well-being are sought from the distributors and / or film-makers. Expert veterinary advice has also been taken on a number of occasions to determine whether cruelty towards animals has been involved during the making of a film. Cuts will be made to films or DVDs where there is clear evidence of on-screen cruelty, or the makers are unable to provide convincing assurances.

While a cat eating a mice is a natural, real-life occurrence, if such an incident has been "organised or directed" specifically for the purposes of being filmed - rather than captured on film while occurring naturally as in a wildlife documentary - and involves the cruel infliction of pain, we are legally required by the Act to remove the scene.

I hope this explains the situation for you.

Yours sincerely,


J L Green
Chief Assistant (Policy)

Philleh 2nd June 2010 04:02 PM

Exact same response for me too!

Nika 2nd June 2010 04:12 PM

so now it seems almost certain this release will be mouseless.

oh well

Sargento 2nd June 2010 04:19 PM

I do wonder how many viewers would find the scene offensive. To be honest I am a very open minded viewer (or I wouldn't subscribe to this forum!) but I find films like Martyrs and Eden Lake offensive. They are FAR to true to life to be entertaining in my view. Horrid!

Sargento 2nd June 2010 04:22 PM

.... Anyway

Let's get back to praising the film.

I love the scene in the apartment when Giuseppe Verdi's Nabucco is playing on the stereo and the power keeps going on and off. I think this, and the bullet through the eye scene in Opera and Argento's 2 most powerful scenes!

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

nekromantik 2nd June 2010 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelings (Post 83453)
Nobody has said it would be missed or that it was crucial - the bottom line is that the film will be a censored version.

As irritating as any cuts are I think the lack of an Inferno release elsewhere coupled with the package being put together aswell as simply seeing the film in HD may well be hard to resist come the day of release.

Like we have often done before , we make do with the best on offer at the time and while the extras for this release may mean the disc remains forever in my collection I have no doubt that I will buy an uncut version of the film when or if it appears - 5 seconds or not

Yeah I dont like cut movies either so if I have the money to double dip Inferno in the future then I will if I enjoy it enough.

A cut for I split on your grave for example would be harder to dis-miss as the rape scenes are the main part of the story.

broonage 2nd June 2010 05:03 PM

I got the same reply word from word.

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 2nd June 2010 05:14 PM

Me too. :nod:

Daemonia 2nd June 2010 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philleh (Post 83589)
Exact same response for me too!

Same here - word-for word. Cut and paste job, it seems :lol:

Okay...so it's really down now as to whether Arrow has any pertinent information regarding the scene. Other than that, this cut is probably still going to stand, unfortunately. But let's wait and see what they say after a second evaluation of the work. I'm glad they've clarified the point about seeking advice from the Home Office, which clears that grey area up. I can perfectly understand and accept this (and Vince already stated this, I might add).

It's tricky, because I'm not sure how the BBFC can pass this scene whilst still demanding similar cuts elsewhere.

Oh well, cut or not, let's focus on what we do have (even though a cut would still irk me somewhat) - and that's an HD presentation of Inferno packed with extras. :)

skyofcrack 2nd June 2010 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inspector Tanzi (Post 83587)
I got a reply from the BBFC just now:

Dear Aarron

Thank you for your email and interesting comments.

I should point out that no decision has been made about INFERNO. We have not classified this work, and it would not be appropriate to comment on a title under consideration.

As you know, the BBFC has a statutory obligation under the Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act 1937 to ensure that no scene "was organised or directed in such a way as to involve the cruel infliction of pain or terror on any animal or the cruel goading of any animal to fury" in regards to works intended for cinema release in the UK. The same consideration is also given to works released on video and DVD. This approach was endorsed by the Home Office at the time of the designation of the Video Recording Act 1984 and subsequently supported by legal opinion.

The BBFC takes its legal obligations very seriously. If our examiners have any doubts or concerns over the treatment of animals in the works they view, assurances of well-being are sought from the distributors and / or film-makers. Expert veterinary advice has also been taken on a number of occasions to determine whether cruelty towards animals has been involved during the making of a film. Cuts will be made to films or DVDs where there is clear evidence of on-screen cruelty, or the makers are unable to provide convincing assurances.

While a cat eating a mice is a natural, real-life occurrence, if such an incident has been "organised or directed" specifically for the purposes of being filmed - rather than captured on film while occurring naturally as in a wildlife documentary - and involves the cruel infliction of pain, we are legally required by the Act to remove the scene.

I hope this explains the situation for you.

Yours sincerely,


J L Green
Chief Assistant (Policy)

Okay, here's the problem with this response. He only sites the Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act 1937. In that, it says, "the expression " animal " has the same meaning as in the Protection of Animals Act, 1911. From that:

Quote:

(a) the expression " animal " means any domestic or captive
animal ;
(b) the expression " domestic animal " means any horse, ass,
mule, bull., sheep, pig, goat, dog, cat, or fowl, or
any other animal of whatsoever kind or species, and
whether a quadruped or not which is tame or which
has been or is being sufficiently tamed to serve some
purpose for the use of man ;
(c) the expression " captive animal " means any animal (not
being a domestic animal) of whatsoever kind or species,
and whether a quadruped or not, including any bird,
fish, or reptile, which is in captivity, or confinement,
or which is maimed, pinioned, or subjected
to any appliance or contrivance for the purpose of
hindering or preventing its escape from captivity or
confinement ;
Elsewhere in the Act it says:

Quote:

8. If any person-

(b) shall knowingly put or place, or cause or procure any
person to put or place, or knowingly be a party to
the ' putting or placing, in or upon any land or
building any poison, or any fluid or edible matter
(not being sown seed or grain) which has been
rendered poisonous,

such person shall, upon summary conviction, be liable to a fine
not exceeding ten pounds :

Provided that, in any proceedings under paragraph (b) of
this section, it shall be a defence that the poison was placed
by the accused for the purpose of destroying rats, mice, or other
small vermin, and that he took all reasonable precautions to
prevent access thereto of dogs, cats, fowls, or other domestic
animals.
That shows a clear distinction between dogs, cats, etc... as domestic animals and rats and mice as vermin which are okay to destroy with poison. Why would you have to protect vermin by cutting it out of a film (even though it's long since met its maker) even though you can kill them in your home according to these documents?

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 2nd June 2010 07:13 PM

It must be a standardised response as I received exactly the same e-mail from the BBFC today. Still, I've got a letter ready to go to my MP which covers the issues raised in the BBFC's e-mail and it will be interesting to see what comes back from that.

phelings 2nd June 2010 07:27 PM

And so did I.

Gojirosan 2nd June 2010 07:28 PM

SNAP!

I got one of those too!

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 2nd June 2010 07:41 PM

A good lawyer will be able to pick massive holes in that act and get Inferno passed uncut in a morning's work.

bgart13 2nd June 2010 07:47 PM

This is tiresome. Can someone lock this thread down until an announcement is made, then start it back up?

The Reaper Man@Cult Labs 2nd June 2010 07:58 PM

Go to here for some FUN Inferno banter.;)

http://www.cult-labs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2955

springjack 2nd June 2010 09:52 PM

Quote:

This is tiresome. Can someone lock this thread down until an announcement is made, then start it back up?
My thoughts exacly...:clap:

phelings 2nd June 2010 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgart13 (Post 83726)
This is tiresome. Can someone lock this thread down until an announcement is made, then start it back up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by springjack (Post 83754)
My thoughts exacly...:clap:

The why bother to read , let alone post on a thread clearly labelled "BBFC Verdict".:rolleyes:

If you're not interested in a debate on the possible cuts to the film there are other threads covering other aspects of the release

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 2nd June 2010 09:56 PM

I suppose you realise the irony of posting a message of support asking that a thread be locked down?!











In case you're wondering, this post was meant to be ironic.

Zombie Dude 2nd June 2010 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philleh (Post 83589)
Exact same response for me too!

Same here.
Quote:

Originally Posted by skyofcrack (Post 83703)
That shows a clear distinction between dogs, cats, etc... as domestic animals and rats and mice as vermin which are okay to destroy with poison. Why would you have to protect vermin by cutting it out of a film (even though it's long since met its maker) even though you can kill them in your home according to these documents?

I though mice were considered as pests anyway? That's why this whole censorship of this scene seems stupid.

Inspector Tanzi 3rd June 2010 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgart13 (Post 83726)
This is tiresome. Can someone lock this thread down until an announcement is made, then start it back up?

Thid thread was made because we kept discussing the cut on the regular Inferno thread.

I suggest you go onto that thread instead if you don't want to talk or read about censorship!

Daemonia 3rd June 2010 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgart13 (Post 83726)
This is tiresome. Can someone lock this thread down until an announcement is made, then start it back up?

Hmmm....on a thread talking about the possible censorship of Inferno a couple of people want the thread closed. That's pretty ironic. That's censorship in itself. :doh:

As far as I can ascertain, the large majority of forum members, whilst upset this might be the subject of pointless censorship, are still going to buy this title. That's quite a testament to the support Arrow and Shameless have. I'm pretty confident that while there may be a slight dent in sales, this title is still going to do reasonable business. I can understand both sides of the argument - I also detest censorship. But we have it and we have to bite the bullet on that, I'm afraid.

I still can't get my head around the fact that it's perfectly lawful to poison a mouse and leave it to die in agony whilst a cat eating a mouse is viewed as animal cruelty. The former is far worse in my opinion.

springjack 3rd June 2010 01:13 AM

Quote:

Thid thread was made because we kept discussing the cut on the regular Inferno thread.

I suggest you go onto that thread instead if you don't want to talk or read about censorship!
Every user in this forum has only one opinion... UNCUT.

If the opinion is the same to everybody then it´s not a debate, but a consensus.

The BBFC have already ruled thin once... CUT.
Then, some emails did the magic action of resubmit "Inferno" to a new evaluation.

Until another decision I believe it´s pointless for us to throw the same old story.
Sure, I want this uncut like evrybody else, but let´s wait for the decision of the BBFC...

bgart13 3rd June 2010 03:40 AM

It was just an idea, folks! :D

My point was going along with what Almar has been trying to get across: everything has been said already for the past week or two and now it's getting too contentious 'n' venomous. And I DO keep reading because when there's continued activity and I've been away for a day, there's hope that the BBFC has a new verdict that's been posted - and I have to cruise through a bunch of occasionally nasty responses tween folks to find out...nope, no response yet. I guess my idea was self-serving...?

Stephen@Cult Labs 3rd June 2010 05:44 AM

Tbh,after much deleberation,I'm not too bothered now if the BBFC come back and say the cut will still be made.Sure,I would like an uncut release,we all would and it's a pointless cut but at the end of the day,I can live without the scene (I think!).And that shall be the extent of stevoj's involvment in the BBFC Infeno debate. ( Yes I realize I didn't really debate anything there :D )

Peter Neal 3rd June 2010 07:37 AM

Having watched the scene in question just yesterday on the old ABUS DVD release, I'd find it very surprising IF the filmmakers actually went through the "trouble" of deliberately staging the whole "cat/mouse" thing- as the bits really have an "insert" feel and could have been taken out of any documentary on cats and mice.:nod:

Phantom 3rd June 2010 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almar@Cult Labs (Post 83307)
Tenebrae might be, Deep Red is not and Phenomena a maybe!

:woot: 2 out of 3 ain't bad at all!

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 3rd June 2010 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Dude (Post 83757)


I though mice were considered as pests anyway? That's why this whole censorship of this scene seems stupid.

If you ask some people they are pests, if you ask others, they are pets -- depends on the mouse! Same goes for cats and dogs, depending on whether they are feral or tame.


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