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-   -   SHAM029/SHAM200 - New York Ripper HD: The BBFC Verdict (https://www.cult-labs.com/forums/new-york-ripper/4323-sham029-sham200-new-york-ripper-hd-bbfc-verdict.html)

bgart13 13th January 2011 08:42 PM

When will we get the information about what these extras scenes/bits are? I'm curious about this, as I've never heard of missing bits before (just that scene that was misplaced in BU's & others' editions).

Also, what are the chances of TORSO getting a blu-ray release? I'd like to get the dvd, but if there's even a slight chance, I'll pass for now.

Sarah@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen@Cult Labs (Post 121643)
Because NYR (even when there were uncut releases from abroad), was one of the top sellers for Shameless, and I have no doubt that the BD will be as well.

Quite right, it was their second biggest seller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustdevil (Post 121649)
You are forgetting that not everyone uses the internet if they did nobody would walk into a high street shop and pay £25 - £30 for a bluray when it's £15 - £18 online,but they do.

Also very true. Not sure if this is still the case but I remember Almar once saying that online sales actually count for very little and the majority of sales come from people purchasing a copy of the film on the high street. A lot of people who buy films like this are buying them as impulse purchases and probably aren't aware that there are other versions out there. And, even if they were aware, they may not have the time or inclination to go searching for these other versions online and so are quite happy to buy a slightly cut version that is easily available in their nearest HMV.


Quote:

Originally Posted by bgart13 (Post 121668)
When will we get the information about what these extras scenes/bits are? I'm curious about this, as I've never heard of missing bits before (just that scene that was misplaced in BU's & others' editions).

Also, what are the chances of TORSO getting a blu-ray release? I'd like to get the dvd, but if there's even a slight chance, I'll pass for now.

I've asked Shameless for more details on the additional footage so be patient for a bit longer. They're very busy at the moment but I'm sure they'll let us know as soon as they can.

As for Torso, I really can't say. I can say that there are no plans at the present time for it. Obviously, for the future, it depends on things like whether a good HD master comes available and also whether it would be worth Shameless spending the money to put it out on Blu-ray. With Shameless being such a small company and Blu-rays being expensive to produce, it's a careful balancing act. So, as for that, I just can't say.

There is this thread seeing what already released Shameless titles people would like to see released on Blu-ray. I'd say it's best to make known your desire for Torso there as Shameless do check it.

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 121636)
Sorry to complain, but, those cuts are destroying one of the most gruesome murder scenes ever shot by Fulci. Why would people praise a release that has gore cut out of it? And what does the extra seconds not avalible in the Blue-Underground contain? Some extra lines of dialogue or someone entering/leaving the room?



It's posts like this that seem to justify the BBFC's decision as, from what you have said, you are only interested in the gore elements and not in the construction, direction or artistic merits of films at all.

As for "destroying one of the most gruesome murders ever shot by Fulci", the cuts are very brief and have been very well edited by Shameless so, if you didn't know that the film was cut, you wouldn't notice that anything was missing. It isn't ideal that the BBFC decided to cut the film but I, for one, am intrigued to see what Shameless have found to make those who longest ever rele version of New York Ripper ever seen.

Steel76 14th January 2011 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs (Post 121775)
It's posts like this that seem to justify the BBFC's decision as, from what you have said, you are only interested in the gore elements and not in the construction, direction or artistic merits of films at all.

Like I´m the only one who enjoys the spectacular gore effects in a Fulci film ;)

I AM interested in the entire films, but come on, do you rather watch censored versions of Fulci´s films or uncut versions? The same goes for ALL italian horror/splatter movies.

Oh well. Nothing you can do about BBFC´s decision.

I´m not gonna rant anymore ;)

I do look forward to what´s coming up next on BD from Shameless.

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 121795)
Like I´m the only one who enjoys the spectacular gore effects in a Fulci film ;)

I severely doubt you could call a razor blade slicing through an (obviously) rubber nipple is a spectacular gore effect, but I understand what you're saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 121795)
I AM interested in the entire films, but come on, do you rather watch censored versions of Fulci´s films or uncut versions? The same goes for ALL italian horror/splatter movies.

I would much rather watch an uncut version but, in the case of New York Ripper in the UK, that isn't going to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 121795)
Oh well. Nothing you can do about BBFC´s decision.

You can appeal it, which Shameless did, but once their decision is final, you'll probably need to wait for a change in their policies and guidelines and/or the director.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 121795)
I´m not gonna rant anymore ;)

Good! Friendly banter and constructive posts are much more welcome.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 121795)
I do look forward to what´s coming up next on BD from Shameless.

So do I.

antmumford 14th January 2011 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76
I do look forward to what´s coming up next on BD from Shameless.
Am I missing something, what's next for Shameless Blu-ray?

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 02:05 PM

You're not missing anything as nothing has been announced. That doesn't stop us from debating the titles we would like to see in HD and a nice yellow Blu-ray case, does it?

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antmumford (Post 121824)
Am I missing something, what's next for Shameless Blu-ray?

Hopefully Torso and The Frightened Woman! :pop2:

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizarre_eye (Post 121836)
Hopefully Torso and The Frightened Woman! :pop2:

What about Night Train Murders, What Have They Done to Your Daughters? or something completely new to follow The Strange Case of Mrs Wardh? I would definitely opt for the latter.

Steel76 14th January 2011 03:47 PM

I would even get "Manhattan Baby" if they release it.
Not one of Fulci´s better movies, but still very entertaining :)

The wires on the dead birds would be even more visible :lol:

Vampix 14th January 2011 07:21 PM

I watched The New York Ripper for the first time today, and I must say I quite enjoyed it.I've had the Anchor Bay DVD sitting on my shelf for years and have never watched it in its entirety until today.This is the uncut version which has a misplaced scene involving a freeze frame of Paolo Malco.It's a good film, better than The Beyond & House by the Cemetery imo, but my Fulci faves are still City of the Living Dead & Zombie Flesh Eaters. :nod:

Sarah@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampix (Post 121895)
I watched The New York Ripper for the first time today, and I must say I quite enjoyed it.I've had the Anchor Bay DVD sitting on my shelf for years and have never watched it in its entirety until today.This is the uncut version which has a misplaced scene involving a freeze frame of Paolo Malco.It's a good film, better than The Beyond & House by the Cemetery imo, but my Fulci faves are still City of the Living Dead & Zombie Flesh Eaters. :nod:

Glad you liked it! If you decide to double-dip and get the Shameless version on DVD or Blu-ray you'll get that misplaced scene in the right order.

Stephen@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah@Cult Labs (Post 121932)
Glad you liked it! If you decide to double-dip and get the Shameless version on DVD or Blu-ray you'll get that misplaced scene in the right order.

Hey Sarah, not sure if you'll know this yet, the 15secs thats been mentioned as not being in the BU version but will be in the Shameless disc, is there any chance that this could be the misplaced scene? I've seen on sites before saying that scene is 15secs long, or are these 15 addition secs of stuff?


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Sarah@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 09:18 PM

Afraid I don't know this at the moment. I'm seeing if Shameless can give me more details so hopefully I'll know more soon! :)

Stephen@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 09:20 PM

No problem. Thanks. :)


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RoXX0rz 14th January 2011 09:37 PM

With the way the cuts were made to the DVD, I don't think it destorys the release totally. To be fair, it's not even half a minute that has to be cut, only 22+ some odd seconds? When I watched the offending scene it seemed like it had very little on-screen time anyway. But it will put collectors of owning it because no matter how little has been cut, it's still a cut version. I haven't read through all of this thread, but if the extras are good I may pick it up. The HD aspect doesn't make a difference to me. I don't much care for the whole HD thing, if the DVD quality is good, it does me.

I still have my Shameless DVD of it, and recently got the AWE (Another World Entertainment) release. :D

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 10:30 PM

Sarah, I don't know if I can make you promise or swear to it, but could you put the information on here as soon as you receive it?

Sarah@Cult Labs 14th January 2011 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs (Post 121961)
Sarah, I don't know if I can make you promise or swear to it, but could you put the information on here as soon as you receive it?

I will try my very, very best. When I can give the info out you guys will be the first to receive it! :)

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bgart13 15th January 2011 12:45 AM

Once upon a time, horror fans would freak over cuts to a movie and there could be no defending them. What kind of crazy, upside-down, Twilight Zone world do we live in, in which a cut release is defending? :loco:

(Btw, I'm not trying to start crap, just making an observation of the Bizarre. I really don't care if folks wanna buy it or not -- I'm just wondering/stating aloud online is all. I grew up watching movies/filmmakers/etc. battle with the MPAA in the US throughout the 80s and 90s over cuts/obsenity/etc. and can't recall anyone ever doing this back then. It's really difficult for me to wrap my head around. And, also btw, no flame-wars or commentaries on Shameless or its fans intended. Ok? Ok!)

the blob 15th January 2011 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgart13 (Post 122000)
Once upon a time, horror fans would freak over cuts to a movie and there could be no defending them. What kind of crazy, upside-down, Twilight Zone world do we live in, in which a cut release is defending? :loco:

(Btw, I'm not trying to start crap, just making an observation of the Bizarre. I really don't care if folks wanna buy it or not -- I'm just wondering/stating aloud online is all. I grew up watching movies/filmmakers/etc. battle with the MPAA in the US throughout the 80s and 90s over cuts/obsenity/etc. and can't recall anyone ever doing this back then. It's really difficult for me to wrap my head around. And, also btw, no flame-wars or commentaries on Shameless or its fans intended. Ok? Ok!)

I don't think anyone is defending the cuts per say. What's equally bizarre is just that it's a fact of life in the UK that this has to be cut and who knows whether that will ever change with the BBFC's stance on sexualised violence. There's no point ostracising Shameless for it (not that I'm suggesting in the slightest that's what is happening :) ) and it's just something that has to be taken unfortunately. When it comes to home video, the UK has been a lot worse off throughout the years than the USA. Things have improved greatly but let's just accept that, in this case, the cuts are non-debatable.

I think the point here is that Shameless are putting a lot of effort into the release still and what's piqued my interest more than anything is the extra footage. I already have the BU version and I'm quite happy to double dip for what will be an interesting variation. Some have put down this release and then want Shameless to explore their wish list on BD. I'm sure what else comes along will be dependant on the success of NYR so it's a vicious circle.

As for how it's been cut/edited, I will add my own comment having watched the dvd that it is very well done. Once again, it's not a defence, just an observation that they've made the best out of a bad situation.

bgart13 15th January 2011 10:02 AM

"Defending" isn't the right word, you're right. I guess I was thinking more that it's being rationalized. I understand what you wrote though, blob. It is difficult to wrap my head around, truthfully.

Vampix 15th January 2011 10:23 AM

To be honest, I'm not too worried about the misplaced scene in my Anchor Bay DVD.I am, however, bothered about the censor cuts made by the BBFC to the film, I won't be picking up the Shameless BD release for this reason.

lurkingfear 15th January 2011 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs (Post 121775)
It's posts like this that seem to justify the BBFC's decision as, from what you have said, you are only interested in the gore elements and not in the construction, direction or artistic merits of films at all.

Who the hell do you think you are? Condescending pseudo holier than thou garbage like this is the reason why cult labs forums members get a reputation for being mindless fanboys. New york ripper is, was and will forever be know and loved for the sleaze and nasty gore, thats why people buy it! It sure as hell isnt for the artistic merit.

Who are you to bring this guy down because he wants all the gore intact? ITS AN EXPLOTATION FILM! You understand that?? Back in the day horror fans would go nuts trying to track down an uncut version to see the nasty fx, but now we should all evolve into better beings and watch cut versions of horror films for the amazing cinematography? I dont know what world you live in pal but its not the real one.

The Shameless blu-ray is cut, the BU disc is not, its that simple! Its not a scene of a cat eating a mouse, its a cut to one of fulci's most well done and realistic gore effects. The shamesless disc may have its merits, it may be a worthwhile purchase for extras etc but dont start preaching morals at us because we want to see all the gore in a horror/expoitation film

Stephen@Cult Labs 15th January 2011 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkingfear (Post 122075)
Who the hell do you think you are? Condescending pseudo holier than thou grabage like this is the reason why cult labs forums members get a reputation for being mindless fanboys. New york ripper is, was and will forever be know and loved for the sleaze and nasty gore, thats why people buy it! It sure as hell isnt for the artistic merit.

Who are you to bring this guy down because he wants all the gore intact! ITS AN EXPLOTATION FILM! You understand that?? Back in the day horror fans would go nuts trying to track down an uncut version to see the nasty fx, but now we should all evolve into better beings and watch cut versions of horror films for the amazing cinematography? I dont know what world you live in pal but its not the real one.

The Shameless blu-ray is cut, the BU disc is not, its that simple! Its not a scene of a cat eating a mouse, its a cut to one of fulci's most well done and realistic gore effects. The shamesless disc may have its merits, it may be a worthwhile purchase for extras etc but dont start preaching morals at us because we want to see all the gore in a horror/expoitation film

I'm sorry but we don't stand for members verbally assaulting one another here. You're post is extremely insulting. You say Nosferatu's response was condescending and you had to reply with insults? As I've said before, there are many sites out there that are quite for members to insult one another until their hearts content, but not here I'm afraid.


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lurkingfear 15th January 2011 02:29 PM

Hardly a surprise. You say that my post was out of line but you seem to think that his insulting post was fine? That says it all

Stephen@Cult Labs 15th January 2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkingfear (Post 122087)
Hardly a surprise. You say that my post was out of line but you seem to think that his insulting post was fine? That says it all

No, your post was actually a personal verbal attack and I pointed out that we don't stand for that.


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lurkingfear 15th January 2011 02:38 PM

um....and his post was not an attack on the guy he replied to??? Right ok

Stephen@Cult Labs 15th January 2011 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkingfear (Post 122092)
um....and his post was not an attack on the guy he replied to??? Right ok

There's a difference between the two. I'm not here to argue with you. That's all I have to say.


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lurkingfear 15th January 2011 02:56 PM

um..well thats good because you said nothing of importance anyway. Good luck to everyone who is looking forward to buying the cut shameless new york blu for the artistic merit. just dont ask for gore on here though, cause they're better than that ;)

User1138 15th January 2011 05:33 PM

I've just noticed the argument and I see that Lurkingfear is now listed as an ex-member on the forum. I assume that this means that he is banned for defending his right to express an opinion on the subject of The New York Ripper.

Having read through some of the other pages on this thread, and being a fan of the movie, I find it very sad that one can be barred for expressing their views, especially when long term members will have seen similar insulting responses on others threads being allowed with no action taking.

If Nosferatu believes that horrior fans will watch these films for artistic merits, will he be so blind to believe that horror fans will watch a horror film minus the horror that was oringinally in it, just for the sake of seeing someone else mess with the director's true vision?

I will assume that I will be shown as an ex-member very soon.

Lurkingfear RIP

Stephen@Cult Labs 15th January 2011 05:51 PM

As I have said, there was a difference between saying that some one watches a film only for the gore and it's no wonder the bbfc cut films, and the way the ex-member personally insulted another member only to then respond by saying that someone else was saying nothing of importance.


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Steel76 15th January 2011 06:16 PM

Personally I felt a bit attacked by the post about "only caring for gore", like I´m some kind of a wierdo getting off to the scene or something.

But, I can take that. Just don´t think I watch these film only for the gore. I just want them to be intact, especially since the Fulci films are famous for these scenes.

User1138 15th January 2011 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 122157)
Personally I felt a bit attacked by the post about "only caring for gore", like I´m some kind of a wierdo getting off to the scene or something.

But, I can take that. Just don´t think I watch these film only for the gore. I just want them to be intact, especially since the Fulci films are famous for these scenes.


and that is my point. Just because some of us prefer to see the movies intact doesn't give others the right to make attacking comments (such as "only caring for gore" in our direction and make us sound as though we are obsessed on the splatter). I admire the look. framing and the style of these classic movies. I simply don't appreciate reframing, rezooming and messing around with footage in any way other than the director intended. Vipco and Hardgore did that (granted they were mostly precut by distributors) - and look what happened to them!

However, it appears that retalliation to any extent is frowned upon now. I guess that it is more acceptable to insult a large group of people rather than defending your views against one individual.

This all seems a bit Animal Farm to me... all forum members are equal.. but some are more equal than others depending on their view!

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 15th January 2011 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel76 (Post 122157)
Personally I felt a bit attacked by the post about "only caring for gore", like I´m some kind of a wierdo getting off to the scene or something.

But, I can take that. Just don´t think I watch these film only for the gore. I just want them to be intact, especially since the Fulci films are famous for these scenes.

I apologise if you felt insulted or attacked as that was not my intention. I was only pointing out that, in the grand scheme of things, those 20-odd seconds of cuts are not huge and there is nothing that can be done about them in the UK with the BBFC having the policies and guidelines it does.

What I did find strange was your tone as it seemed that you are only interested in the gore elements of films and if that is not the case, then good!

I found the post from the ex-member to be personally insulting and that is why the moderators took the decision to ban him as we want this to be a friendly and welcoming place to talk about films, DVDs and BDs (plus all the accompanying merchandise). Posts that go out of their way to be deliberately insulting ("Who the hell do you think you are") will be dealt with severely as I'm sure you would like to be a member of a form that is as friendly as possible and not one that descends into a slanging match between members.

User1138 15th January 2011 09:52 PM

What a great way to justify your insult, although the use of the word "good" in this instance comes over very saracastically. It makes me wonder whether I would have taken insult by it if I did only watch these films for the gore... i think that I would have.

Oh well.. at least you proved the last line in my previous post was correct.

Cheers for that!

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 15th January 2011 09:58 PM

I assure you, the use of the word 'good' in my post was meant with all sincerity and I'm sorry you felt it was sarcastic.

As for your Animal Farm reference, it doesn't matter who is insulted in a post as we take the position that an insult against one person is an insult against the entire forum so it wouldn't matter if the person insulted was a moderator, a long-standing member or someone who joined this week as the same action would have been taken.

Steel76 15th January 2011 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs (Post 122187)
I apologise if you felt insulted or attacked as that was not my intention.

No worries, apology accepted. :)

Things can easily go out of hand in heated discussions at times and it´s easy to misunderstand or take things too serious in text form.

I can be a bit picky with releases at times as I can easily detect compression artifacts, DNR or if the black levels are off in a transfer/disc etc. But I also know that some things can´t be 100 procent perfect at times depending on source etc.

So even though I (sadly) am this picky about these things + cut footage, and might comment critically on things at times in the forums, I don´t mean to be nasty or being a prick.

Well, let´s put this behind us. I hope this disc does well for Shameless so we can get some more sweet titles in yellow BD cases in a near future :)

Cheers!

Nosferatu@Cult Labs 15th January 2011 10:01 PM

Thanks for the post -- I'm glad we can put this behind us and look forward to the future of 'Yellow-ray'!

User1138 15th January 2011 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs (Post 122198)
it wouldn't matter if the person insulted was a moderator, a long-standing member or someone who joined this week as the same action would have been taken.


That's cool, and I respect that. Anyone who feels that they have been insulted is entitled to take the same action.

But, as with the argument on BBFC-enforced cuts, there are two sides to every argument. I was not necessarily looking at it with regards to action being taken from the standpoint of the insulted...

Mbarr 16th January 2011 01:10 AM

Following on from discussions going on here...I'll be buying NYR Blu though I would prefer if it was intact...as for the censorship discussions? I feel that members have been banned because mods are taking the whole personal attack thingy quite literally...the "you are only interested in the gore elements and not in the construction, direction or artistic merits of films at all", to me is by definition a personal attack AND condescending (sorry I have to agree with the now "excluded" member)...for them to reply with "Who the hell do you think you are?" is the same type of response & therefore fair game...on movie forums we can all get very heated in discussion about the movies we love...but respect has to be completely across the board...the "ex member" did not use offensive language like stupid bstrd, cnt or similar...he took a defensive stance as the post he was replying to was a "put down"...I get on with everyone on here (even people I have been irritated by & whom I have irritated!) but PLEASE take a step back & stop this illiberal attitude... & reinstate this member...let's get back to the passion of cinema (and with that PASSIONATE discussion!)
:)


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