[QUOTE=Mbarr;122230] "you are only interested in the gore elements and not in the construction, direction or artistic merits of films at all", to me is by definition a personal attack AND condescending (sorry I have to agree with the now "excluded" member)...for them to reply with "Who the hell do you think you are?" is the same type of response & therefore fair game


Good to know that I am not alone with that opinion. In any forum that I've submitted to, the doors always swing both ways. You've got to take the good with the bad and not let 'personal feelings' (whether as moderator / long term / newbie) get in the way. Especially when there is no justifiable reason as everyone has the right to their own opinion.

The BBFC have used the term "banned / cut on the grounds of harm" for many years. I would hate to think that the ex-member was banned under the same, undefined policy that has became the bain of UK horror fans! That would signal the end of passionate discussion in the forums!!!

I'm sorry, but my personal opinion is that if the ex-member was allowed to return, he would indeed start being more aggressive and perhaps even start using offensive language, in which case, he'd be banned again. Until the individual who took the decision to remove the member has been told otherwise, the ban stands.

Can we all get back to discussing NYR on this thread, and if need be, continue this on the members site discussion thread?


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Agreed Stephen.

Back to the film please.:clap:

Sorry but I have to agree.

I come from a country who has no censor problems with anything.

Will gladly exchange 15 seconds of bits here and there for full uncut violence.
The extras are good but not enough for another buy.

As I've said before it is the consumers right to choose whether to buy or not - Shameless have to operate within UK law and appealed the decision and were turned down but are putting out an exciting product which people can consider based on what's important to them - and quite right too.

The DVD (which had the cuts stated upon it - and in fact too long a cuts time to boot!) sold very very well and that helps fund smaller releases and also a lot of people were happy for it so we have to accept that whilst some certainly don't wish to own such a thing - others do. This thread is about the BBFC cut so that can be discussed at will but let's just respect mutual positions on whether it's worth buying or not and we can have an interesting debate.

Nothing Shameless can do about the cuts (unfortunately)...the BBFC have ruled.
I think Shameless is to be applauded for re-submitting it and trying to get it passed uncut.

They succeeded with Inferno when they appealed the 'mousegate' cut and I'm surprised at times haven't changed enough in Soho Square to allow that through but, hey ho. Maybe in a decade when there is another new format!

But Inferno was submitted by Arrow... ;)
Maybe a message should have been send from Italy stating "the breast was not really hurt,it was a sort of trick". :lol:
Oh well...

Maybe the BBFC decided they wouldn't accept a written statement saying "The nipple was rubber and the scene was not meant to give the audience sexual pleasure or incite them to commit copycat crimes"!

Whoa!
it was like a warzone in here ha ha

Anywho my stance on this is simple, yes I do not like cut movies and usually will not buy them as this is my opinion but if the release has other good things about it then when price drops I will buy it. Original shameless dvd I did not buy as that time there was no UK blu so I went and bought the BU blu. I am happy with it and will get the new shameless blu when the price is right as I like the new extras.

onto the subject of ex-member, what he said was out of line and I joined CL as it was a friendly place without fights. Now everyone does have rights to thier own opinions and if they think someone was being rude when they were not (this is text so can be hard) then yes they will retaliate. But the way he went about it was all wrong, there is a better way of having a civil argument.

Im out now :)

Not to pick sides (I have this release on pre-order for the extras and the extra footage) but, this thread was designed to discuss the BBFC decision and NOT the film (there are two other threads in this section for that), as per Sarah's introductory post:

"Please note that any discussion of the BBFC decision is to take place on this thread only - comments posted on other threads to do with this release will be removed as we need to keep threads tidy and focused".

As for the cut, it is unfortunate, but I whole-heartedly agree with bdc stating that Shameless should be applauded for re-submitting this, as they surely must of incurred a fee for doing so and it shows they have us, as fans, best interests at heart.

I actually meant get back to the topic of the thread. Just didn't word it very well. :)


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Ah, no probs Stephen - just thought it was weird when I saw it! ;)

Thanks guys.

Just to clarify, since we got a bit lost back there, the topic of this thread is, indeed, the BBFC imposed cuts to Shameless's forthcoming New York Ripper.

Ditto-warzones do get confusing!:eek:

What a pity some folk are gonna pass on this Shameless release for the sake of 19 seconds .
I too prefer uncut films but I will buy a cut version if I have to or if I feel the purchase is justified , and I feel that if Shameless can go the extra mile for us fans by paying a fee to resubmit NYR to the BBFC in the hope of a waive of the previous DVD cut , then pay a second fee for an appeal viewing and fail ,yet still put it out as a premium release, with all new extras and extra footage , then I feel that thats a label that needs supporting and I will be buying the Shameless NYR BD on release.

With a US uncut R0 NYR already available I would imagine that Shameless will be aiming mainly at the UK market with this BBFC approved release , and even in its cut form I see it as an important UK release as so many companies would have pulled this after the first BBFC ruling, denighing many UK colecters and casual buyers the chance to own this gem of a film in Hi Def .
We need more Fulci on BD here in the UK for the UK Horror market to survive as not everybody imports . This is still an important release for UK fans even with the cut and imho the high sales of the first Shameless NYR on dvd prove this.

Vipco while I agree with you, its up to people what they do with their money. Not Im not defending the people not buying it or defending non-member as you can tell from my other post on here. :)

yes the cut is short however and you done loose out anything from the main story so in that sense its not that big of a deal but I bought the US release as it was uncut and on blu vs the then DVD only shameless release. Now Shameless are relasing it with 13 secs of never before seen footage and new extras its a worthy purchase. :) I just wish I had the money for double dips :lol:

I know Nekro, and im happy for people to spend and buy as they please.
What I mean is there are UK Horror collectors now into BD that dont import much or at all and need to be sustained and that NYR , even trimmed, is still an important release for them and the UK and its great that Shameless see this and that its wrong for a few people to attack this release or Shameless due to BBFC cuts or spoil the enjoyment of this release for those who the UK highstreet is the only option.
I mean UK buyers should have the option to enjoy a release without feeling unimportant by other collectors because their version is missing a scene and therefore shouldn't exist.
I certainly wasn't having a pop at you mate for importing .

Nah I never thought u was attacking me :)
I do agree that this is a good thing and Shameless and Arrow are 2 of the best UK horror distributors we have and Im loving the work they are doing :)
Its nice when people can have discussions without getting hostile. The way we are talking is the way it should be done :) unlike other forums around where member bashing is a past time :lol:

Back to the cuts, the nipple scene is not that bad tbh but we can never expect BBFC to allow sexual violence so its unavoidable. Is that all thats been cut?

Yeah, thats the only cut, but Sham have edited the scene really well and if you weren't familiar with NYR or that scene you'd never know it was cut , very smoth and not jump cut,. Its still a brutal scene the way its edited . I got the first Sham DVD of NYR and the PQ is excellent so they should do a lovely job with the BD.

I aint got the US BD so the Sham NYR BD will do me fine as I have an uncut DVD .No double dipping for me and I certainly wouldn't try to force others too , though im sure some will.

Yeah mate your right, it's great to have a good discussion without fear of feeling like a lesser being just coz your views differ from someone elese's ,thats why I like it here. It's people like yourself Necro , the mods and the rest of the guy's an girl's here, many who i've knew from the day they joined that make this place a joy to come to and not a chore like it is for me to visit a certain other site. Man it's a slag fest on every Thread there ...LOL

ha ha yeah
I was talking about a certain horror website too that has a lot of member bashing going on and people being unplesent. Shame really as its a really good website. I love it here though, so many friendly people who I hope I can get to know more :)

I think I know which one you mean. ;)

I think people will know which site you mean even without mentioning or giving hints to which one it is. The friendly nature of Cult Labs wasn't the reason I joined, but it is the reason I stuck around and it has become the #1 forum I visit because I receive so many recommendations and have many different thre threads in which I can talk about movies.

Anyway, back on topic, I wonder how long it will be until the BBFC relax their policies and guidelines even further and we see a shift similar to that in 1999 but to a lesser extent as peop distributors begin appealing previous rulings. I reckon it will take a decade or so so maybe in 2025 or thereabouts we will see an uncut version of the New York Ripper released in the UK with the BBFC's blessing. Either that or a radical governments will introduce legislation to allow 'unrated' DVD/BDs as long as they do not breach UK legislation. Sadly this will not permit films with ani animal cruelty but would work in the case of films like New York Ripper, A Serbian Film or I Spit on Your Grave.

Imo I dont think the BBFC will ever really loosen that much tbh, yes they have improved a lot recently but sexual violence and kids in sexual scenes between adults (i.e serbian film) will never be be seen as ok by them.

I know the BBFC would never agree to it but I was talking about 'unrated' releases like they have in the US where anything can be included as long as it doesn't break the law. A Serbian Film, New York Ripper and I Spit on Your Grave don't contain anything that would run afoul of UK legislation, only the BBFC's policies and guidelines.

Yeah thats true.
But then again its not very likely that they will allow unrated releases as that means anything can be released here and thats the main reason the BBFC exists, to stop that. Maybe im wrong who knows ha ha.

I do think that re submission's by the same company of the same film for a new format should be looked at for free by the BBFC though.
Shameless have now paid the BBFC 2 fee's plus an appeal for the same film in under 5 years (i think) and thats a substantial amount of money imo.

True, plus as long as we have the OPA there will never be an unrated option unless they ammend it in some way.

yeah its wasted money really. they should not ask for more money on a film thats already been submitted and further more they HAVE to submit a film in the first place as its the law so why charge them when its something that they would be happy to do without. The BBFC should be paying the fees as its their and the governments policy for films to be rated.

In their eyes they're protecting us from violent images that could harm us in such a way that we'd all end up disturbed for life so they probably think they dont get paid enough....lol

I wonder if the BBFC actually believe that, ? and if so , what makes a film like NYR lose its potential to cause us harm and disturb us so that it gets un banned and released in glorious hi def with just a 19s cut .(think its 19) ?

Ha ha yeah.
I mean nyr would hardly cause damage compared to August undergrounds mordum but even that ain't harmful.

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If a government passed legislation to allow unrated releases then the BBFC would still have a job to rate and provide classification information for films that aren't released uncut, for 18 certificate videogames and four theatrical releases. They have unrated DVDs and BDs in the US and the MPAA still exists.

Very true. I'm not sure if mpaa have legislation like we do with opa. That's the main difference I think.

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Hi, I was curious exactly what the cut enforced by the BBFC was? I looked but couldn't find the info anywhere in the thread. Thanks.

You say "Just a 19 second cut", 19 seconds can be a hell of a lot of footage, hell even afew seconds can amount to a lot.

Just think and take this into consideration, you could get a Friday the 13th type slasher film with say 12 deaths in it, it could be cut by 12 seconds, you might think "oh, it's only 12 seconds" but thay can be a hell of a lot.

That could be a second taken from each murder, but that solitary second could be the main part of a murder, how long does it take for an eye to get pushed it, a head to be cut off, a head exploding etc.

So a few seconds could in some ways take near enough every bit of gore out of such a film.

as stated on the BBFC website:
Unfortunately, they say there are 34 seconds of cuts but this is not the case -- it is more like 16, all from that scene which has been edited very well on the DVD releases so you don't even notice that a cut has been made.

I'd prefer it if they had just blatantly cut it instead of trying to justify thet it's the same length etc. I think it makes the scene look strange the way it was messed with.

I get your point Tanzi, I know 19s can be big and can ruin a film, but we know what the cut is with NYR , that it's to one scene and that it dosent tone the nastiness of the film down and also that theres still alot of violence and nastiness left . I posted with that in mind, but I do know what your saying .

That´s why I keep myself from stating any kind or argument.

When someone rules their opinion against a "cut" movie there´s a notion that someone is "attacking". I know some user may have written something that can or cannot be considered an attack, don´t forget that an argument that is read may have a diferent meaning that an attack that is said. Opinions to a few is an attack for the majority.


Maybe those 13 seconds are just 1 second of 13 scenes extentions...

I was talking about guys on other forums who do attack the right for trimmed films to exist in the UK while theres an uncut Euro or US version available Jack. Sorry I should have eloberated more. I ment no disrespect to anyone here.