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  #551  
Old 5th June 2018, 07:55 PM
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The bottom line is that you haven't seen them. Seriously, watch one of them - The Tall T or Ride Lonesome would be good starting points - and then see if you still stand by what you're claiming.

Because I suspect your actual reaction would most likely be very similar to mine - bearing in mind that I myself hadn't seen a single one prior to March this year. And I'd also barely seen a single Western made before 1960, because my prejudices chime pretty much perfectly with yours.
That's fair enough given what you're saying here - I will given them a go at some point, I promise.
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  #552  
Old 5th June 2018, 09:39 PM
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The BBFC have passed "The Stranglers of Bombay" uncut with a '15' certificate

Presumably this is the first time that the film have been released uncensored. It was cut on it's original cinema release in 1959, and then cut further for it's video release in 1996

All cuts have now been waived, including the 7 seconds removed from the video release for animal cruelty - a scene of a mongoose fighting a snake

Once again, a mockery is made of the animal violence law!
Apologies for the belated reply (I've only just seen this post), but this last bit really isn't true. The 1937 Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act is very clear about what is and isn't allowed, and it contains two explicit get-out clauses - if the animal cruelty was provably simulated, and if it would have happened regardless of the camera's presence (what I call the David Attenborough defence).

Which is why Hammer made sure that they made the film in such a way as to qualify for one of those exemptions - in this case by using inserts from existing Indian documentary footage rather than staging the fight for the cameras themselves. It's very obvious, especially in the high-definition version, that the close-ups of the snake and the mongoose fighting were shot separately: those shots drop at least a generation and have baked-in debris and exposure fluctuations that aren't visible elsewhere in the scene.

The film was duly passed in 1959 for theatrical release including that footage, and again for Blu-ray release in 2018 - the only real mystery being why other video releases in the interim were cut. My hypothesis is that cuts were overzealously requested by the BBFC and not contested by the distributors - whereas Powerhouse provided enough information and evidence (including a statement from a member of the original production team) to satisfy the BBFC that the film not only did not infringe the Animals Act but had been designed from the outset not to do so.
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  #553  
Old 5th June 2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Brooke View Post
Neither - the UK rights aren't with MGM.
hah, i'd never make it as a researcher. i rely too heavily on wikipedia
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  #554  
Old 5th June 2018, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Brooke View Post
Apologies for the belated reply (I've only just seen this post), but this last bit really isn't true. The 1937 Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act is very clear about what is and isn't allowed, and it contains two explicit get-out clauses - if the animal cruelty was provably simulated, and if it would have happened regardless of the camera's presence (what I call the David Attenborough defence).

Which is why Hammer made sure that they made the film in such a way as to qualify for one of those exemptions - in this case by using inserts from existing Indian documentary footage rather than staging the fight for the cameras themselves. It's very obvious, especially in the high-definition version, that the close-ups of the snake and the mongoose fighting were shot separately: those shots drop at least a generation and have baked-in debris and exposure fluctuations that aren't visible elsewhere in the scene.

The film was duly passed in 1959 for theatrical release including that footage, and again for Blu-ray release in 2018 - the only real mystery being why other video releases in the interim were cut. My hypothesis is that cuts were overzealously requested by the BBFC and not contested by the distributors - whereas Powerhouse provided enough information and evidence (including a statement from a member of the original production team) to satisfy the BBFC that the film not only did not infringe the Animals Act but had been designed from the outset not to do so.


I’ve noticed this with the BBFC a few times with regards to the Animals Act. The wording of the act says that something specifically staged for a film isn’t allowed, and that’s what the BBFC looks at when judging whether to cut a scene, but if it’s proved that the filmmakers filmed something that was taking place even if they weren’t there (i.e. not set up for the film), they shouldn’t cut it. But there have been instances when it’s been cut regardless. This is, imo, censorship based not on the law of the land, but on what the BBFC Examiners find acceptable themselves, which doesn’t sit well with me at all.
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  #555  
Old 5th June 2018, 10:39 PM
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Case in point with what’s “legally” allowed.

The fim crew contact someone and say we want a dog, get us one and let’s film you skin it alive while it screams in agony (UK law says it will never pass).

The fim crew stumbles on someone skinning a dog alive while it screams in agony and they record it and use it in their film (UK law says no problem, that’s allowed!)

This is how absurd the Amimals act is .
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  #556  
Old 6th June 2018, 07:34 AM
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The rationale behind exempting cruelty that would have happened regardless of the camera’s presence was so that the law wouldn’t inadvertently penalise serious documentaries exposing animal cruelty - and indeed a fair number of wildlife docs in general.

Yes, in the process it created a loophole, but I’m not sure how you could close it without also cracking down on David Attenborough - and in any case the scenario that you outline is rare in the extreme.

(I daresay a real-life equivalent would be the kangaroo hunt in Wake in Fright, which the Australian RSPCA not only firmly endorsed but even urged Ted Kotcheff to make more graphic, in order to draw international attention to what was happening in the lawless outback - although Kotcheff was presumably mindful of the fact that it’s comparatively early in the film and he didn’t want audiences fleeing the cinema in droves.)
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  #557  
Old 6th June 2018, 03:44 PM
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I'm surprised you don't like films like Winner's Chato's Land or Red Sun, another Bronson flick...Breakheart Pass.
Okay let's start again.
Spaghetti,Eastwood,Peckinpah,Bronson or Gritty.....

I'm not up for the 'Oklahoma,home on the range,where the buffalo roam' -'type' western.
Maybe I'm wrong......do these westerns contain violence like the abovementioned suspects?
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  #558  
Old 6th June 2018, 03:50 PM
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In fact, I hated them as a kid because of the abundance of 1950s and 1960s American westerns that were shown on Sunday afternoons (along with the loathsome BONANZA). It wasn't until I saw The Good, The Bad and the Ugly at the age of ten (the choice of going to bed or staying up and grudgingly watching a "cowboy film") that my stance changed massively.

Hey!
We must be in the same age category!

My old man was a MASSIVE Eastwood fan.
From I was kneehigh to an arsehole,I was weened on big Clint's westerns.Especially the Leone trilogy.

Audie Murphy and the likes just weren't for me.
I'd rather watch Bill 'Audie' in the Goodies!
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  #559  
Old 6th June 2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Brooke View Post
The rationale behind exempting cruelty that would have happened regardless of the camera’s presence was so that the law wouldn’t inadvertently penalise serious documentaries exposing animal cruelty - and indeed a fair number of wildlife docs in general.

Yes, in the process it created a loophole, but I’m not sure how you could close it without also cracking down on David Attenborough - and in any case the scenario that you outline is rare in the extreme.

(I daresay a real-life equivalent would be the kangaroo hunt in Wake in Fright, which the Australian RSPCA not only firmly endorsed but even urged Ted Kotcheff to make more graphic, in order to draw international attention to what was happening in the lawless outback - although Kotcheff was presumably mindful of the fact that it’s comparatively early in the film and he didn’t want audiences fleeing the cinema in droves.)
I hated that scene!
Poor wee skippy!
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  #560  
Old 6th June 2018, 03:59 PM
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Scott played the loner as seen in these films long before Eastwood came along.
Mikey will give you that tenner in the car park later Dem.......
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