The Doctor Who Thread

[Susan Foreman]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

That clip on Children in Need was quite good fun. Got me looking forward to the Christmas special now.

The clip is already on YouTube!

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by Susan Foreman

The clip is already on YouTube!

It's the official CIN channel. I suspect all the recognized Who web sites have had it for days waiting to post.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

I can't agree on that last point or the BBC wouldn't be demanding a series a year. It's the biggest money spinner the BBC have in terms of world wide popularity. The fact they can't release a new series set this Autumn makes me think it was one of the reasons for the animated Dalek dvd.

I do agree that Moffat has turned the show into something it isn't. You mentioned the Silurians, actually when i remembered, it clarified that the Silurians from Cold Blood weren't the same species as the ones in Wensley Caves. The ice Warrior should definitely have remained in it's armour.

My gripe is the Cybermen being reduced to cannon fodder in stories. Then when they get a suitably menacing comeback he didn't know what to do with them. When i saw the Dalek Paradigm at the stage show i thought they were ****ing awesome. In fact i think that's possibly one of the reasons, as well as merchandising, that they were designed, so they'd look massive on a stage. Don't smirk at the back there, that stage show was a big deal and toured the world's arenas.

That promo campaign - Just the Doctor and Clara, off in the TARDIS, same old same old really didn't help either. I can't imagine RT-D ever going down that route as with him it was always 'event television'. I do fear if the Christmas special isn't teasered promisingly then series 10 will flop. However with a new show runner, new Doctor and new companion, i'd expect it to regain public interest as season 11 comes along.

Finally, Mark Gatiss is a brilliant writer. His horror documentaries, Crooked House and The Tractate Middoth as well as some Sherlock and Doctor Who stories such as The Unquiet Dead prove that. Maybe if Moffat had given decent outlines in the first place?

It depends on who's gonna be the new Who. I will say that Gatiss did deliver his best Doctor Who story to date with the "The Unquiet Dead". But I just feel that Moffat has over used Gatiss just too much. Just look at The Idiot's Lantern. Corny and rather cartoony moments with very little decent characterization. The Idiot's Lantern felt rather rushed, even though the story was a single episode. Just look at how underwhelming Robot of Sherwood was. The only other story that stands out by Gatiss that remotely resembles a proper Dr Who story is The Crimson Horror. Cold War was just plain average. I'd rather have The Ice Warriors any day.

Yes. That was true. Those teletubbie Daleks were designed with the sole intention for trying to merchandise them for max profit, but ultimately this scheme backfired. And back we went to the RTD Daleks. Yeah. The cybermen have certainly had it pretty rough when it comes to new Who stories. This concept back in 2006 of an alternative Cyberman reality really screwed everything up. Neil Gaiman's story has to be the worse Cybermen story in Doctor Who with a better budget. Just think how that money could of been spent on Attack of the Cybermen and Silver Nemesis back in the day. Nightmare in Silver is pure cyberpoop. That's if Cybermen even poop to begin with?

I suppose it just depends on how people do react to Chibnall's new Who formula ultimately. Things have certainly changed since the days of Eccleston and Tennant. I still get the impression that Chibnall's series will be the breaker for the BBC. Getting an actor to play the part too young will isolate certain elements of the fandom, but since new Who came back in 2005, it's REALLY NOT been about pleasing the fandom as such. Matt Smith was just about right. Lets just hope that BBC don't just hire an actor for the glossy looks, but leave the acting talent behind.

[iank]

I don't know about the general public, but series 11 does feel like the last roll of the dice for me. It's going to take a lot to get me interested, let alone passionate and engaged, again, and only time will tell if Chibnall is really up to that task.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by hivemind

It depends on who's gonna be the new Who. I will say that Gatiss did deliver his best Doctor Who story to date with the "The Unquiet Dead". But I just feel that Moffat has over used Gatiss just too much. Just look at The Idiot's Lantern. Corny and rather cartoony moments with very little decent characterization. The Idiot's Lantern felt rather rushed, even though the story was a single episode. Just look at how underwhelming Robot of Sherwood was. The only other story that stands out by Gatiss that remotely resembles a proper Dr Who story is The Crimson Horror. Cold War was just plain average. I'd rather have The Ice Warriors any day.

Yes. That was true. Those teletubbie Daleks were designed with the sole intention for trying to merchandise them for max profit, but ultimately this scheme backfired. And back we went to the RTD Daleks. Yeah. The cybermen have certainly had it pretty rough when it comes to new Who stories. This concept back in 2006 of an alternative Cyberman reality really screwed everything up. Neil Gaiman's story has to be the worse Cybermen story in Doctor Who with a better budget. Just think how that money could of been spent on Attack of the Cybermen and Silver Nemesis back in the day. Nightmare in Silver is pure cyberpoop. That's if Cybermen even poop to begin with?

I suppose it just depends on how people do react to Chibnall's new Who formula ultimately. Things have certainly changed since the days of Eccleston and Tennant. I still get the impression that Chibnall's series will be the breaker for the BBC. Getting an actor to play the part too young will isolate certain elements of the fandom, but since new Who came back in 2005, it's REALLY NOT been about pleasing the fandom as such. Matt Smith was just about right. Lets just hope that BBC don't just hire an actor for the glossy looks, but leave the acting talent behind.

Fandom although vocal about the series has never been the target audience. It was under John Nathan Turner in the end and that's possibly what killed it. Ever since it came back RT-D always said it was for the family audience rather than fans and that's why he basically killed all continuity with the classic series. No mention of Time Lords, Gallifrey or anything like that. He talks about it a lot in his book The Writers Tale. Steven Moffat's gone with continuity from the Davies era and expanded it but not really in a good way. He's also added ridiculously convoluted story arcs which don't actually excite viewers. Moffat always did his best writing i felt when he had someone like Davies to guide him. Personally i'd like to see them both pen the odd story for Chibnall. Oh and yes although i like Mark Gatiss he does need a rest from the series, i kind of expect that when Chibnall takes over.

It always annoyed me (as much as these things can annoy of course) that SM ditched Graeme Harper as a director and went with people who worked on the usual BBC shows like Poldark etc.

Originally Posted by iank

I don't know about the general public, but series 11 does feel like the last roll of the dice for me. It's going to take a lot to get me interested, let alone passionate and engaged, again, and only time will tell if Chibnall is really up to that task.

Not singling you out here iank, but you've not really been a fan of nu-Who you've said so many a time and that's okay. I hope you do like what Chibnall has in store, actually i hope i like it as well Hopefully the idea will be to re-appeal to people like yourself and casual viewers but he won't be able to please everyone i guess.

I've always meant to ask you. What did you think to the recent K9 series which was a product of your own country?

[iank]

Never saw it. Didn't really have any interest in it!

[hivemind]

[QUOTE=Demdike@Cult Labs;511530]Fandom although vocal about the series has never been the target audience. It was under John Nathan Turner in the end and that's possibly what killed it. Ever since it came back RT-D always said it was for the family audience rather than fans and that's why he basically killed all continuity with the classic series. No mention of Time Lords, Gallifrey or anything like that. He talks about it a lot in his book The Writers Tale. Steven Moffat's gone with continuity from the Davies era and expanded it but not really in a good way. He's also added ridiculously convoluted story arcs which don't actually excite viewers. Moffat always did his best writing i felt when he had someone like Davies to guide him. Personally i'd like to see them both pen the odd story for Chibnall. Oh and yes although i like Mark Gatiss he does need a rest from the series, i kind of expect that when Chibnall takes over.

It always annoyed me (as much as these things can annoy of course) that SM ditched Graeme Harper as a director and went with people who worked on the usual BBC shows like Poldark etc.



I think Russell T. Davies did use Graeme Harper a bit too much. There was an over-reliance on Graeme me thinks, just because he directed the much respected The Caves of Androzani, which I did enjoy as a story. Graeme could of been used more sparingly as a director. I do think that Moffat has been justified in using some new talent like Adam Smith, Toby Haynes, Nick Hurran and Saul Metzstein. But I do know what you mean. Do you bet Dem? cos I'm beginning to think that just maybe, Chibnall will probably get Gatiss to write a story. Hope not. Davies openly stated didn't he that when Doctor Who re-launched in 2005, that the notion of Dr Who being just for the fandom was just not acceptable to a modern, early 21st Century auidence.

Instead we got a soap. With some elements of what you would call Doctor Who. I shouldn't knock old Russ too much, considering he contributed to one of my favourite single stories, Midnight + with Phil Ford on The Waters of Mars. Just a shame he didn't apply the same style of tense writing to the terribly dire The End of Time Parts 1 and 2. A shambolic ending to Tenant's reign as the Tenth Doctor. Even now, I still cannot sit down and watch those two stories all the way through.

I get to Dalton's "spit lord" speech, and that's it Dem. Off! Same could be said with The Planet of the Dead. Great title, shocking story with a flying double decker bus. Jesus, what a pile of crap. I was really looking forward to Steven Moffat's reign as Executive Producer of Doctor Who. There's been some enjoyable stories, but I'm shocked at how dark and malevolent some of the stories have been with Capaldi. Even during Tom Baker's period, we never see Who plum the depths like Moffat has with Capaldi. I will say that Russell T. Davies kept the show quite balanced with light and dark, but Moffat, he's quite something else.

Those story arc's have been just overstretched waaay too much. I agree. Instead of having just two-parters with a fully locked in story, we get story arc's that really do make you cringe. I've had mixed feelings about Steven Moffat. When you watch a story where the creature lays planet's as eggs, well, you have a feeling he's steadily running on empty. Kill the Moon was just plain daft. At least the series back in the 1960's, 70, 80's did apply some scientific knowledge in some stories, but Moffat just decides to leave the science fiction out of the equation.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

You make some great points as always, Hivemind.

The thing with Moffats story arcs in my opinion is that the arc itself hasn't been interesting. You mentioned Davies making the series more like a soap opera with bits of Doctor Who thrown in, well the season 6 arc with Amy's child being the Doctor's wife was too much even for Dallas.

I loved the Bad Wolf and Saxon arcs, they were subtle yet involving, then returning with the Bad Wolf motif at the end of Turn Left (two series later) made my spine shudder, it was obvious the finale would be huge and involve Daleks. Unfortunately as with all his final episodes indeed with every final episode since it's return it never built on some stunning premise's.

The clip from the Christmas special looked nice and light and dare i say fun, which continues from the last Christmas episode and hopefully into the next series.

As a final thought.

Why can't the Doctor and Bill, Nardole, whoever, just land on a planet, discover an evil plot by the Sontarans, Slitheen, Kraals, etc etc, defeat them then sod off again and land on another planet and do the same. By all means have sinister but subtle messages about an alien threat from the far reaches of the universe that is headed towards Earth, throughout the series, so that when the Wirrn horde appear for that two part finale we know something big is coming, but make it interesting not the fact Bill might be Martha's second cousin removed.

[Susan Foreman]

My copy of 'Power Of The Daleks', which I ordered from Amazon, has just arrived. Sad thing is, I will probably have to wait until the weekend before I can actually watch it

It comes in a slipcase, but the picture is the one that most people seem not to like

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Susan Foreman

My copy of 'Power Of The Daleks', which I ordered from Amazon, has just arrived. Sad thing is, I will probably have to wait until the weekend before I can actually watch it

It comes in a slipcase, but the picture is the one that most people seem not to like

You'll have to give a full review of Power of the Daleks at some point. Would be handy to read what you thought with a critical eye.