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  #831  
Old 31st January 2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by keirarts View Post
Luke Skywalker. Farmboy. King Arthur stir arc. Gets magic sword from old wizard. Suddenly discovers he has powers. Becomes hero. (Plus we know how things ended up for Arthur when he got old)

Obi wan. Old hermit. Delivers exposition and sword. Dies.

Han solo. Rogue. Heart of gold. Does the right thing in the end.

Leia. Princess. Falls for rogue.

Chewbacca. Hairy comic relief.

Lando calrissian. Black Han solo.

Darth Vader. Masked villain. Looks menacing. One major character twist is he's the heroes dad.

Palpatine. Who is he? Where's he from? Why does he do things? See the cloak. The ugly face? Because evil.


Not exactly Dostoyevsky. Nor should it be. It was never the point of the films.
Exactly and nearly all those problems he has with the new movie or there with the original trilogy, people l really need to take off the nostalgia goggles if we had social media etc back when the originals came out you would have people comparing them to something and moaning and bitching how unoriginal etc they are, hell pretty sure we'll over 50% would be the same lot complaining about last Jedi.

They could make the perfect film with great script, direction etc and you will still get the same people tell us all how awful it is!

Star wars is all about fun and escapism and are primarily aimed at kids, but this seems to have been forgotten by some he think it's just for them and none else.
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  #832  
Old 31st January 2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by trebor8273 View Post
Exactly and nearly all those problems he has with the new movie or there with the original trilogy, people l really need to take off the nostalgia goggles if we had social media etc back when the originals came out you would have people comparing them to something and moaning and bitching how unoriginal etc they are, hell pretty sure we'll over 50% would be the same lot complaining about last Jedi.
A lot of people complained about Empire and Jedi. It was just in the letters pages of fanzines

Still. Leia got to throttle her rapist to death with her chains. Surprisingly badass
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  #833  
Old 31st January 2018, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keirarts View Post
Luke Skywalker. Farmboy. King Arthur stir arc. Gets magic sword from old wizard. Suddenly discovers he has powers. Becomes hero. (Plus we know how things ended up for Arthur when he got old)

Obi wan. Old hermit. Delivers exposition and sword. Dies.

Han solo. Rogue. Heart of gold. Does the right thing in the end.

Leia. Princess. Falls for rogue.

Chewbacca. Hairy comic relief.

Lando calrissian. Black Han solo.

Darth Vader. Masked villain. Looks menacing. One major character twist is he's the heroes dad.

Palpatine. Who is he? Where's he from? Why does he do things? See the cloak. The ugly face? Because evil.


Not exactly Dostoyevsky. Nor should it be. It was never the point of the films.
Nobody said it was Dostoyevsky Kierats, especially me, just kidding, but when it comes to actually telling a narrative in a fairly adequate way, even for the little kids in the audience Kierkats, Lucas seems to win out everytime. I'm by no means a great admirer of George Lucas, but the one thing I will say about the original films and the prequels is a special word that seems to be missing from these politically correct, turged Disney films, and that's something called continuity.

A adherence to something that makes sense, rather than not making sense. The reason why I totally and utterly dispise these new films is the lack of respect to the characters of Star Wars past. Yes. I went to see five Star Wars films when they were originally released bar the original Star Wars in 1977. Yes, I loved all of them for creating great characters that were more believable than the cardboard cutouts of Rey and Kylo. All three original films were clear, straight forward with the stories and you knew that their was a clear and conscious adherence to the way the characters interacted with each other, and also each story had a continuity that flowed through all three films. Even though I dispised The Force Awakens with a passion, Abrams set up Rey's meeting with Luke, then came The Last Jedi, and Johnson just chucks the character of Luke down the proverbial sewer pipe for all time.

This just demonstrates Johnson's complete lack of vision and basic storytelling. A character as significant as Luke Skywalker gets turned into a one dimensional, cold and shitty, couldn't care less idiot. It just goes to show how reductionist storytelling has become. The word creativity doesn't even come into Johnson's head. The story just appeases people who prefer a good old nostalgia ride, and nothing more. The Last Jedi has actually wrecked the story arc that J.J. Abrams was actually setting up in The Force Awakens with real dipstick style.

Snoke was made to be a threat of formidable power, only to be cut in half in The Last Jedi. At least in the prequels we see the development of Palpatine from Senator to Sith Lord and finally the Emperor. A beginning, a middle and a end. Well done George Lucas for showing adherence to continuity. Disney/Lucasfilm wouldn't know continuity if it hit them between the eyes with an electric shock from the Emperor himself.

And just to let you all know who read this, I'm not a fan boy, but just wish Disney/Lucasfilm understood the value of telling a story without making a pigs ear of it continually. I was never a butt hurt Star Wars fan either, just someone who has serious concerns about the direction of a once mighty fine franchise that's been butchered to bits, and doesn't really make much sense. Personally Star Wars needed to be taken into a new direction without the past characters involved. Disney have shit all over a series of films that actually followed a narrative, a creative story arc, and a saga that actually meant something. Now Star Wars means nothing. It's empty, cold and emotionless and sterile. I rest my case. Night
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  #834  
Old 31st January 2018, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by keirarts View Post
A lot of people complained about Empire and Jedi. It was just in the letters pages of fanzines

Still. Leia got to throttle her rapist to death with her chains. Surprisingly badass
Maybe those people should've of seeked out Star Crash instead.
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  #835  
Old 31st January 2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs View Post
Isn't this a question which was quite thoroughly debated on page 70 onwards in this thread?
Sort of, but it's always nice to keep the Star Wars thread going Nosferatu.

That's what these lovely forums are for.
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  #836  
Old 31st January 2018, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by trebor8273 View Post
They could make the perfect film with great script, direction etc and you will still get the same people tell us all how awful it is!.
Oooh! I think not my wonderful trebor. In a perfect world I would love Lucasfilm back in the hands of George Lucas, away from the meddlesome hands of Mickey Mouse. Perfect director, Steven Spielberg. Perfect Executive Producer.......

George Lucas.

Great script. Ooooh! By George Lucas of course.


No trebor. The balance of the force would be restored, and I would no longer complain. Except people like you would be the ones endlessly complaining. Too much like REAL Star Wars you would say trebor.

You can't please all of the people all of the time .

Last edited by hivemind; 31st January 2018 at 11:32 PM.
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  #837  
Old 1st February 2018, 12:02 AM
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Anyone who thinks phantom menace told a coherent story well is wrong. It's a turgid mess.

Last Jedi is a better film than any of the prequels and probably Jedi. The whole politically correct/ feminist complaint is complete bollocks. Simply because the casting directors aren't simply hiring white men for every other role is not the same as having some 'agenda'. It's smart casting when they need to have the film appeal to a more global audience.

As for the plot. It's perfectly fine. It gives the characters decent arcs. Finn realises he can't run away from every problem and that sometimes standing and fighting for something is more important. Rey learns that legacy and heritage are less important than trying to improve the future. Even kylo ren ditches his Darth Vader Coldplay, kills his pseudo emporer master and decides to take control of his own destiny. Even Poe Dameron learns to stop being the cliche hot head character and put his trust in others. Non of this was convoluted and even my mates nine year old son understood what was happening, more so than the utter mess that was phantom menace.

As for Luke. Well his arc made the most sense. He's not the same guy he was. He's wallowing in failure before realising it should be a learning experience. Thematically his final scenes reminded me of the final charge to oh fortuna in Excalibur.

Just because it goes in a different direction doesn't mean it's badly written.
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  #838  
Old 1st February 2018, 12:05 AM
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Anyway..

Some interesting points...

http://youtu.be/qf_rqde7B0A

http://youtu.be/bxDX-nywiTc
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  #839  
Old 1st February 2018, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by keirarts View Post

As for Luke. Well his arc made the most sense. He's not the same guy he was. He's wallowing in failure before realising it should be a learning experience. Thematically his final scenes reminded me of the final charge to oh fortuna in Excalibur.

Just because it goes in a different direction doesn't mean it's badly written.
Why is Luke wallowing? He was okay at the end of ROTJ.

How was The Phantom Menace not coherent? It plays out perfectly well. It may not be to the Star Wars police liking - too much about trade relationships - but it sets up Palpatine's rise to power very nicely. Oh and Darth Maul is a fine villain.

Sure Jake LLoyd was shit as was Jar Jar but the duel of the fates was the best sequence bar none since the end of Jedi.
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  #840  
Old 1st February 2018, 01:33 AM
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There's a reason for Luke feeling disillusioned that stems from him training Kylo Ren, trying not to give too much away but you did ask.
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