The Star Wars Thread

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

The problem for me is the investment in a whole new group of characters. Due to the age of people and also killing off characters such as Han and Luke means there's not an awful lot left of the originals to hang on to meaning when they stop using the Falcon for example or Tie Fighters and all the other iconic things then it's for all intents and purposes just another sci-fi series and not really a genre i'm interested in.

True Dem. Disney wanted Star Wars just for the nostagia ride. Anything to appease a certain age demograthic, and also mix in some social engineering with the neo-feminist crap for good measure. Kathleen's made her views clear about this a few times in interviews. The way Disney have gone about this makes me wonder what really is driving this level of supposed Incompetency.

I've never seen such a mess in my life. Two films that don't add anything to what Lucas set out to do back in 1977, tell a narrative with characters that actually meant something. All Disney have done is rip apart the very soul of the Star Wars universe, and destroy the central characters that actually were so integral to each other and the storylines they told.

We're now left with a directionless Star Wars ship that seems to be going down a blackhole into nothingness. A new trilogy that has no grounding or supportive characters that you really can relate to, without some agenda pushing being chucked in your face.

I'm not really suprised to be honest Dem. Disney have destroyed all cohesive sense of went before, and have stuck the dagger in deep, thus destroying what Lucas gave Disney, a chance to deliver a memorable three story trilogy that could've been great, but instead Disney wanted to deliver a risk free, derivative, agenda driven, plotless junk. How anyone can actually say that The Last Jedi was on the same level as the original trilogy is beyond me.

Return of the Jedi had it's issues, like Attack of the Clones, but The Last Jedi was adding elements into the narrative that doesn't really correlate to what Lucas set in stone with the original trilogy, or even the prequels. I think Dem, Lucas was right about his new trilogy though. Ep's 7, 8 and 9 needed fresh characters, a new threat, and maybe Luke added into the mix, but done the way Lucas wanted to.

That way, the gradual intergration of new characters could've of been done in a very subtle way with a new story arc that made more sense. Personally I really don't know how you can repair the damage that's been done to Star Wars now. It's gone beyond a joke, and quite honestly, Star Wars for me is totally finished. The Star Wars that I enjoyed was the Lucas's films, and all Disney have done is totally wreck a perfectly decent film franchise to shreds. It's totally disgusting to watch.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by hivemind

True Dem. Disney wanted Star Wars just for the nostagia ride. Anything to appease a certain age demograthic, and also mix in some social engineering with the neo-feminist crap for good measure. Kathleen's made her views clear about this a few times in interviews. The way Disney have gone about this makes me wonder what really is driving this level of supposed Incompetency.

I've never seen such a mess in my life. Two films that don't add anything to what Lucas set out to do back in 1977, tell a narrative with characters that actually meant something. All Disney have done is rip apart the very soul of the Star Wars universe, and destroy the central characters that actually were so integral to each other and the storylines they told.

We're now left with a directionless Star Wars ship that seems to be going down a blackhole into nothingness. A new trilogy that has no grounding or supportive characters that you really can relate to, without some agenda pushing being chucked in your face.

I'm not really suprised to be honest Dem. Disney have destroyed all cohesive sense of went before, and have stuck the dagger in deep, thus destroying what Lucas gave Disney, a chance to deliver a memorable three story trilogy that could've been great, but instead Disney wanted to deliver a risk free, derivative, agenda driven, plotless junk. How anyone can actually say that The Last Jedi was on the same level as the original trilogy is beyond me.

Return of the Jedi had it's issues, like Attack of the Clones, but The Last Jedi was adding elements into the narrative that doesn't really correlate to what Lucas set in stone with the original trilogy, or even the prequels. I think Dem, Lucas was right about his new trilogy though. Ep's 7, 8 and 9 needed fresh characters, a new threat, and maybe Luke added into the mix, but done the way Lucas wanted to.

That way, the gradual intergration of new characters could've of been done in a very subtle way with a new story arc that made more sense. Personally I really don't know how you can repair the damage that's been done to Star Wars now. It's gone beyond a joke, and quite honestly, Star Wars for me is totally finished. The Star Wars that I enjoyed was the Lucas films, and all Disney have done is totally wreck a perfectly decent film franchise to shreds. It's totally disgusting to watch.

You make an impassioned argument, Hivemind, but i can't contribute having not seen The Last Jedi.

The way Disney treat franchises isn't good though. Take Pirates of the Caribbean. A brilliant first film followed by four turgid messes that lacked the spirit and soul and ambition of the original to the point where the series is dismissed as rubbish.

[keirarts]

A skilful storyteller can let you know everything you need to know about a character without bogging the film down with needless exposition. This is why Han shooting first was so important. It told you a lot about the characters attitudes and skill set without him standing there and explaining stuff. The rest comes in throwaway dialogue . We know he's a smuggler, prepared , somewhat amoral, self absorbed and cocky. We don't get told what planet he's from, who his parents are. We don't really need to know.

So then people turn out books, comics, video games and people try and fill in the blanks. Not all of it Lucas approved. Some books contradict events in the films or become creepy later on down the line (splinter of minds eye) some is well written some isn't. For example all the complaints about Rey being a Mary sue sound dumb when you come across some of the characters like the angry bloke in dark forces or that Mara jade (or whatever her name was) from the books.

Ultimately though if Disney had to rely on three decades worth of comics, books, videogames and other expanded lore a lot of writers are going to be put off and a lot of new fans won't want to play catch up.

So anyone saying to me the characters from star wars have loads of depth because it was all covered in the 12 volume Jedi bath salts series of novels kind of loses me. That's why Disney ditched it. Now newcomers only need to know the basics and have to engage with the film they paid to see. Not several phone books worth of continuity.

Back to star trek. A lot of trek fans hate the new films but look what happened. The franchise has started drawing people back in and making new fans.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by keirarts

Back to star trek. A lot of trek fans hate the new films but look what happened. The franchise has started drawing people back in and making new fans.

Pity the last film flopped and didn't recoup it's outlay for the studio.

Production budget - $185m

World box office - $343m

A film like that has to at the very least double it's budget before even thinking of coming into profit.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by keirarts

The thing is. SOLO really has to be fan service in a way Last Jedi didn't.

Fan service??????

If Solo was genuinely for the fans, then I think the casting of Han Solo's character needed alot more thought.


Anthony Ingruber anyone?

Lol!

[keirarts]

It's also why I find the argument that Disney have trashed the franchise somewhat laughable. A lot of star wars fans were of the opinion that happened years ago.

Lucas created a massive marketing machine for his toy empire. Actively changed various plotlines to create more toys. Then people are somehow shocked that a corporation looks at it and decides we want some of that.

In all honesty if they released decent quality versions of the original trilogy without the tampering from Lucas I'd be fine with that. It was easy enough to ignore the prequels which did less harm than the tampering with the original three. I don't see how it's so hard to ignore the new films if you genuinely don't like them. The idea they have completely destroyed the original trilogy is a somewhat alien concept to me. Like arguing the 'prequel' to carpenters the thing destroyed the original. I just ignore it.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

It's interesting that The Last Jedi is nearly $300m under The Force Awakens in the same 53 day period.

$614,689,858m compared to $906,723,418m in the US. It's worldwide figure also won't come close to the first film as it's $800m below.

Don't get me wrong it's still done brilliantly in terms of box office but not as good as the suits hoped.

[keirarts]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

Pity the last film flopped and didn't recoup it's outlay for the studio.

Production budget - $185m

World box office - $343m

A film like that has to at the very least double it's budget before even thinking of coming into profit.

I think that had a lot to do with the second one being bad. That and the broken Hollywood machine

[keirarts]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

It's interesting that The Last Jedi is nearly $300m under The Force Awakens in the same 53 day period.

$614,689,858m compared to $906,723,418m in the US. It's worldwide figure also won't come close to the first film as it's $800m below.

Don't get me wrong it's still done brilliantly in terms of box office but not as good as the suits hoped.

Sequels rarely perform as well.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

You make an impassioned argument, Hivemind, but i can't contribute having not seen The Last Jedi.

The way Disney treat franchises isn't good though. Take Pirates of the Caribbean. A brilliant first film followed by four turgid messes that lacked the spirit and soul and ambition of the original to the point where the series is dismissed as rubbish.

I did see Pirates, but only the first film. I think I just lost total interest in them. It's gonna be intriguing Dem to see how you view The Last Jedi. I've said plenty already, and it's pretty upsetting to watch Lucas's films thinking about what was to come after 1983. But the line is drawn, so to speak. 1983 for me is the cut off point.

I wish you luck when you finally come to watch the film on Blu-Ray.

You'll need it.