The Beyond –The Technical Debate
 

This thread is only for discussing the technical merits of the discs: the AV quality and the extra features.

An early review (linked in the review thread) with screenshots, shows the pre-credit sequence in B&W, in all previous releases it has been in sepia tone.

What's up with this?

I made comparison shots from the US Grindhouse DVD for the screenshots in the Rock! Shock! Pop! review:

imgur. com/a/MLFAQ

Some quick observations:

-Huge increase in detail and clarity on Arrow's video.
-A little more picture information on the Arrow release too.
-Not sure about color and brightness. Arrow reveals details lost on the Grindhouse DVD, but might be too bright. I projected a 35mm print of The Beyond a few years ago, and seem to remember it looking more like Grindhouse. And the intro was definitely sepia!

Yeah, the intro is supposed to be in SEPIA and not B/W :doh:

Better fix this before release, Arrow. But I guess it´s too late now :(

Any word on why the intro has been transferred in B&W?

Nothing that has come my way and I actually haven't seen the new release yet!

If and when I find out, I'll let you know.

If? :happy:

People will require an explanation for this unique presentation. It's THE BEYOND afterall, you can't change something that's been a given for so long and expect people to roll with it.

:lol:

Just because you ask a question, doesn't mean you will receive an answer!

The guys at Arrow must have seen this movie before and should know that the opening scene has ALWAYS (except the rare geman version) been in sepia.

Hoping for an answer from the guys soon.

Other than that, the release seems to have an excellent transfer judging from the rest of the screenshots.

All I can do is ask to find out why the opening is in monochrome and not sepia.

As far as the picture quality goes, I haven't watched the film in its entirety yet, only flicked through various scenes, and it does look to be an outstanding transfer with plenty of detail, good colours and deep contrast levels.

It would only be courteous, in this instance, to deliver an answer.

Also no need to speak to me like I'm a child. I'm 41.

I was planning on being courteous and the statement to which you are referring was aimed at me, thinking of the worst and that I wouldn't receive an answer!

Sorry for any offence caused.

I haven't cancelled my pre-order but I'll be honest, if it's B & W then it's a big disappointment and I do believe that it's something that really should be corrected. It'll be a big shame because the caps look pretty good to me otherwise. Looking around, the issue is definitely causing a big stir as I'd expect.

WHA?!?!?! :mmph:


this is really disappointing :(

It's really strange that the sequence is in B&W. Hopefully the released version will be corrected and have the sequence in sepia. So lets all take it easy until we get some kind of official word from Arrow please.

No worries. :)

It's easy to turn a B&W image sepia. Not so easy to turn a sepia image B&W. Maybe the review disc didn't had the final color correction pass? I'll keep my fingers crossed.

To be honest, I'm more worried about the whole film being a little too bright and washed out, loosing some of the atmosphere. Then again, the details in these shots are a revelation!

It was filmed in colour* and turned sepia for the release prints. So it's likely that the sepia image was turned B&W, your 'not see easy' option, by whoever created the review discs.

*The full colour version of this sequence is available as an extra feature on the Anchor Bay US DVD

I'm honestly perfectly content with it being in either black and white or sepia. It's really not a huge deal to me.

Not only is Arrow giving us the best presentation of the film thus far, but they're providing us with every extra they could get their hands on and then some, not to mention there is more picture information on their release compared to the US release which that alone makes it a must buy for me.

I understand preserving the film's original intended quality and overall effect, but I can't see how switching from sepia tone to black and white or going from black and white to sepia tone makes THAT huge of a difference in the overall effectiveness of the piece or of the experience of enjoying the film.

I'm sure there's a reason Arrow went this route, it's doubtful they just wanted to see what would happen if they messed with the color timing just for kicks - maybe this is how the picture looked on the master they were supplied, maybe this is how someone from the film told them they felt that this is how it should have looked like, whatever the reason may be - I highly doubt Arrow expected any kind of backlash like they appear to be receiving and I'm sure their reasons are justified.

With that said, I'm buying this day one for sure, no question. It's the only release on Blu Ray this film has - and even if it does get released here, who's to say it would have anymore extras - in most cases the US releases compared to Arrow's are missing an abundance of extras - or the prints wouldn't be identical??? This could just be how the HD master was conceived and from now on this is how the film will look. What if it's the same transfer Grindhouse was using from 1998 only upconverted to 1080p? All they did for the new HD transfer on the more recent disc was sharpen the picture a bit - they could simply do that again for the Blu Ray release; if they release it at all.

So I'm not sitting by idly waiting for someone else to release it "proper", this release looks like it's going to be more than a worthy addition to any horrorphile's collection - regardless of a potential simple color timing botch, intentional or unintentional.

If there isn't "THAT huge of a difference" then there is no point in making the switch from sepia to B&W. And therefore, the importance should be preserving the original look of the film.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that there is no use assuming anything, or drawing any conclusions on the finished product until we get the official word from Arrow about this.

And who is to say that this may not be the original intended look of the film? What if in the beginning there was a mistake in making it sepia tone and it was always originally intended to be in black and white???

Everyone was all up in arms about the contrast boost on SUSPIRIA when it was released on Blu Ray - until the director of photography came forward and said that was his doing. The original Anchor Bay disc was mastered without the participation of anyone involved in the film - the HD master that was put together in Italy involved the creators of the film. Hence the difference.

So what's to say that's not the case here??? What if Arrow IS preserving the original intended look of the film??? We don't know the real answer, but changing it makes absolutely no sense. Arrow has proven more than a few times that they are fans of the genre and know the films they are releasing, and the audiences they release them too, so for them to change something like this without a valid reason would make zero sense.

EDIT: Nevermind.

Exactly Evilzombie. Which is why people shouldn't jump in and blame Arrow for messing up The Beyond without waiting to hear from them about the scene in question.

I don't believe anyone's deleted anything bgart.

Yeah, I figured it all out.

I was thinking maybe the B&W is an intermediate stage between the original color film and sepia. Like they had to desaturate it first? Sorry, I know it's just speculation! Though again, the 35mm print I personally acquired and projected was sepia, dunno if that means anything. For me it's not a deal breaker, though the overall presentation of the film might be. But of course it's too early to say.

I'll be interested to hear what Arrow's official word is about this.

Every release, including DVD, VHS, and 35mm version, of the film I have ever seen had the sepia tone. I'm not saying it is Fulci's preference, but if there is no proof for the otherwise, there is no reason it should be changed. That is the point I was making.

And if indeed it was Fulci's vision to have it B&W I would have thought Arrow would be proud enough to make it known that their release follows that vision before it gets public.

Right but what I'm saying is, what if the sepia tone in the beginning was a technical error and at the time, it wasn't cost effective to change it to black and white? You have to remember, this was a low budget feature and if there was a mistake made - the producers or whoever was in charge, may not have sought it fit to fix it due to money costs. Who knows right???

But going back to the SUSPIRIA fiasco - the director of photography supervised the HD master that has come out on Blu Ray in Italy and in the UK - he did not do so here (in the US) or for other transfers as well. Thus leaving us with two distinctly different versions of the film and of course the Anchor Bay presentation being more pleasing to the eye - was not the correct mastering of the film. And of course since everyone is used to that version or uses it as a comparison piece - the other transfer looks botched, but that is the way the film is intended to look.

As everyone has already said, let's see what Arrow has to say - it doesn't make a lick of sense for them to make this change with out a valid reason.

Well, it's now been confirmed.

Well, now we have a confirmation from the DP - now all we need to do is hear from Arrow on the reasoning behind the change.

Plot thickens! A hard read, but it looks as though there were many different avenues tested.

oopsy

If the B&W was how it was always supposed to be then I would say the Arrow Release will be the ultimate release of this classic

So what he had done wasn't actually "sepia" like we are calling it, but it is definitely supposed to be the "yellowish" color that is on all the recent releases.

Its obviously a mistake on screening copies. There's no way a company as prestigious as Arrow would release such an abomination on the public after all their fantastic releases this past year or so. The Beyond has always had a sepia tone pre credits sequence, simple as, as everyone who has seen the film since its original cinematic release knows. The only exception to this is of course the version with the full colour pre credits sequence - but this was only ever on the German language version (except for one DVD version, where an English language translation was provided as an extra).

Of course this will be released the way it was originally intended. I have total confidence in this, and am very excited about the Blu Ray release.

Although the truth of the matter is already known I have to ask evilzombie if he is aware of the GrindHouse release of this film? If so, does he also know that the people behind that release (theatrical and home video) included Quentin Tarantino? The Beyond is one of his faves. Do you think that if it were supposed to be B&W that he wouldn't have known? Don't you think GrindHouse would have taken the time to correct this? That release took YEARS to come out. They made sure it was the best presentation at the time. Get off your knees please.

I can't believe what I've just read.

The Beyond was never, ever intended to have a black and white pre credits sequence.

There are enough sources out there to support this. Its a technical error. One I have every confidence Arrow will correct before its released.

Yep, I found it mind boggling too. Why do people find it so difficult to accept Arrow made a mistake on this rather than dreaming up crackpot theories to justify it.