Is Horror Losing Its Way?
 

I was thinking us on here of course appreciate Horror in passionate respectful & dedicated ways, we watch,review & Discuss all the classics from the 60's-the 90's and are always on the look out for them rare classics.

But we are now in a new generation of horror where at times it seems to me both film makers and new generation viewers are changing the future of the Horror Film for the worst.

In the last 6 or so years (At Least) most new releases have been unimaginative remakes of the good ol titles, or always aimed at teens with the film being presented in a childish way that would rarely entertain anyone over 21.

Endless teen flicks with very few sometimes NO adult cast and no serious respect worries me comedy rip offs are always a failure as well, on top of all this most these teen flicks aimed at teens are all the same recycled crap dressed up with tiny differences.

As Harsh as it sounds I can only Praise 12 films that have been released since the year 2000, these being the brilliant saw films & The Final destination films + 2 or 3 other stand alone titles.

So are the days of Originality and true horror and gore over? or are these cheap tacky teen aimed crapathons a passing phase??

Discuss

I totally have to disagree with you here, mate.

Horror has still a lot of strength and each glossy mainstream outing for the teen market, which is doing the business in the multiplexes, ensures that smaller scale projects within the independent circles or in countries, where horror has been hard to finance due to cultural snobbery in funding boards etc (Scandinavia, France (!!!) etc), have a much bigger chance to actually being made than back in the dire 90's.:cool:
What horror fans tend to forget in the countless discussuions on the www on "modern horror" is that for every big studio remake they're getting worked up about, there are numerous smaller scale movies to be found- if people where only more eager to look past the Hollywood output.;)

Horror has been a vivid part of mainstream cinema for over a decade now and it truly SADDENS me to know that a huge portion of die hard genre fans will first appreciate the popular output of recent years when we're back to romcoms and the best "horror" you can find would be a Charles-Band-type DTV quickie....:ack::(

I agree in terms of smaller unknown horror makers, for example many of the Horrorfest seasons 8 films to die for I found very good. I should of been clearer actually I was refering to all the USA remakes and dross we see and in no way to the small independant films turning up I agree most of them are great. I guess what I should of asked is where USA remakes and latest offerings are concerned is THAT the end of horror as we knew it.

France & Italy from Fulci right through to INSIDE (2006???) are always good films with plenty of gore and point, but USA films are not what they were.

Hope I make more sense now :jest:

I see your point, but even there I have to disagree to some extent:popcorn:

As long as Hollywood is still financing its fair share of seriously gory mainstream horrors, like "Scar 3D", "Midnight Meat Train", the "Saw" sequels and a lot of 70's/80's horror remakes/prequels with INCREASED gore factor- "The Hills Have Eyes", "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning" etc- I can live with their PG-13 borefests for the teens....unless of course they'd start to actually DRAG me into a theatre to watch them.:jest:

good Points, and I suppose looking at it we do get the odd Gems still as I said myself in first post Like the Saw I-V series, Midnight Meat train was also excellent

Some valid arguements on both sides for this one!

I generally have to say I agree that the latest output of horror is pretty dire. I am a firm fan of the classics, but that said I do like a fair amount of what many think is crap as well - it's a fine balance! :D.

At work when I first read this thread, I was almost in totally agreement with you Gold, mate. When I got home however and found out that there is a hell of a lot of horror movie I own made 2000 onwards that I really enjoy, I had to re-consider!

It is amazing though the amount of unbelievable toss (in my eyes anyway) that has been produced in the last almost decade, compared to the 'Golden Years' (no pun intended mate :D) of horror. This is possibly because more movie are made nowadays; and it is certainly easier to make movies now, plus stand-out, original horrors are a rare breed probably due to lack of ideas, or the corporate machine thinking about selling tickets, rather than coming up with anything original. This could mean that there are the same (if not more) great movies made today as there were in the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, but due to the amount that are made today, you may have to wade through more shit to find them...

Even though I am about to contradict myself below with my (numerous)personal horror faves of the '00's (which this morning I could count on one hand), I have to say that I generally agree that horror film-making has lost it's way. Whether 'society' (yawn), the media, the fans, or the studios are to blame (or a combination of all of these factors and more) is irrelevant, the fact is that, to me, it certainly does seem that the horror film industry 'ain't what it used to be'. ;)

00's - What has stood out for me (so far :D)

-1408
-28 Days Later
-28 Weeks Later
-30 Days of Night
-The Abandoned
-American Psycho
-Ascension
-Bad Biology
-Bad Inclination
-Beyond Re-Animator
-Bloody Reunion
-Bone Sickness
-Cabin Fever
-Call of Cthulu
-Carver
-Cloverfield
-Cube Zero
-Dagon
-Dawn of the Dead (remake)
-Dead Birds
-Dead Silence
-The Descent
-The Devil's Backbone
-The Devil's Rejects
-Dog Soldiers
-Dumplings
-The Eye (Pang Brothers)
-Eyes of Crystal
-Frailty
-Freezer
-From Hell
-Frontiers
-Ghosts of Mars
-Gruesome
-H2Odio
-H6: Diary of a Serial Killer
-Halloween (remake)
-Hannibal
-The Happiness of the Katakuri's
-Haze
-Hellraiser: Inferno
-The Hole
-Hollowman
-Home Sick
-The Host
-House of 1000 Corpses
-Ichi the Killer
-Inside
-Laid to Rest
-Land of the Dead
-The Last Winter
-Love Object
-Malefique
-Martyrs
-May
-Meatball Machine
-Midnight Meat Train
-The Mist
-Mother of Tears
-Mum & Dad
-Nature Morte
-Next Door
-The Ordeal
-The Orphanage
-Red Dragon
-Reeker
-Reincarnation
-Resident Evil
-Saw
-Session 9
-Silent Hill
-Sleepless
-Splinter
-Storm Warning
-Switchblade Romance
-A Tale of Two Sisters
-Tattoo
-The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (remake)
-Them
-Undead
-Unrest
-What Lies Beneath

Compared to what I thought this morning, this is now a loooooooong list, and I have to admit to feeling a bit of a tit! :D I'm sure there will be plenty more where those came from, and obviously many of you will disagree, and laugh and scoff at my choices, but the problem is finding these diamonds amongst so many zircons... ;)

Hey B_E, Firstly From your list There is only 2 titles I really loved, the rest I can either give or take or thought were crap :ack:.

Secondly you made some good points, and no you don't look/sound a Tit.

Thirdly your no pun intended is fine, Ironically My username which is now my user name for 99% of sites is actually because of The fact I adore "The Golden Years"

I am 26, but My music,Film & Tv tastes are classic, a few songs/films/tv shows impress me but most of my loves are days gone by.:)

Hey Gold, sounds like you have a varied and interesting taste mate. :cool:
It's rare nowadays that people of a young(ish) age (!) like ourselves (I'm only 25) appreciate the classics. For instance I enjoy some silent cinema such as Lang's Metropolis and Wiene's Das Kabinett des Doktor Caligari, as well as the old Universal Monster movies from the 30's. That said I will then go away and watch Rob Zombie films and Nail Gun Massacre! :p

I heartily agree with you on the 'loved' part, even though these films stood out for me from the mainstream dross, there is only a couple I can say that I 'love'.

It sure is very rare Bro, I always have been and still Am teased for my retro likes.

I mean I have a soft spot for some classic But equally as awful films as the ones In the thread here I speak of as crap so in a way I am hypocritical but what the hey it is how it is made and how it stands time rather than terrible look and recycled crap.


There is Good "Bad" and just BAD
I loved the Vipco range

I loved the Old Aussie soaps , Prisoner,sons & Daughters etc

and when it comes to Music I would rather have Yazoo,Whitney Houston,Queen,R.E.M,Dusty Springfield,Carole King,Human League etc

Than the shit that hits the charts now.

Don't get me wrong I do love "some" of the recent tunes.

And I do like "Some" current tv shows/Films

but overall nothing is what it was, I rarely watch Tv ever usually get a dvd out plenty to choose from no adverts, no late run ning schedules etc :)

I agree with you on the TV situation mate. I the only thing I watch at the mo is F1 on Sundays - everything else I can take or leave. The Mrs on the other hand will watch enough TV for the both of us; all the soaps, The Hills, Friends... :ack:. That said I do have a fair bit of fairly recent TV shows on DVD... Family Guy, Futurama, Simpson's, Scrubs. 'Old' TV for me is stuff like Blackadder, Father Ted, Red Dwarf... more 90's, as I didn't really watch much TV growing up and neither did my parents - so never got into any of the old 80's shows. I probably would find them okay too, its just that I've never seen them! :o

Music is a different matter all together though... I got into music before I did film, admittedly music has dropped off the radar a bit more now, and film has taken over but I've always been fond of music - I went to my first live gig when I was 11 (Gavin Rossdale's Bush :D). Now, even though I do like the odd bit of REM, Queen and Stones, I'm into more industrial and electronic music and have been for the last few years.

I too can't stand chart music... If someone offered me a million quid to name any song in the charts at the mo I wouldn't have a clue.

FRIENDS, that has got to be one of the biggest piles of shit to ever insult our Tv screens!!!.

Love the simpsons though hilarious.

I like elctro/electronic 2 both classic and modern erasure through to transfonics.

Women love their tv personally I always go for the dvd what I want when I want. I too have neglected my musical habits to make way for my viciously growing Dvd collection and films.

Went abit ott last 4 weeks ordered over 100 LOL.

I'm 21 and i also love the classics my all thime fave film is The Searchers ( 1956 ).

Cant belive you liked Redident Evil! I vomit blood thinking about that movie ( although i have just bought RE: Extinction )

And Gold, i like Friends:D

No worries we are still mates I hope :D:rofl:

It is popular I just fail to see what is funny about it, or any USA sitcom TBH they would put the canned laughter on if someone broke their neck over the pond. :jest:

I was expecting it to be shit, but it surprised me in some respects and I quite enjoyed it. The sequels however.... terrible - especially Apocalypse :puke:. Extinction wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but was still pretty dire.

It wasn't a bad film actually (RE) considering it was a Game rip off they always fail even the older ones like street fighter and Mortal Kombat although watchable were not masterpieces of cinema, RE was enjoyable but not a serious film I think it was intended to be comical.

When discussing the future of horror or the genre as a whole ,I think we can become blinkered by our own obsessions within the genre.I think that the genre is piss poor at present with remakes and sequels being the order of the day but I work with a couple of horror fans who love them and think we are in a golden age of horror.The sheer volume of films coming out seems to support this view if you don't use quality as a yard stick.

The genre has always had its low points,look at the 1940s and 1950s not a lot there untill Hammer got going.

There are good films out there being made it's just finding them.

I think we may actually be the problem not the genre as we are the elite of horror fans and demand the best.We are willing to go that bit further to search out treasures both old and new where as mainstream fans are happy with what they are given.We are willing to give ourselves wholeheartedly to the genre when few do.I think this is why, on occasion we can feel the genre is losing its way because it doesn't put in the same effort as ourselves!

MTDS , thats very true what you say, I could'nt agree more.
Though we have a good 'undgerground scene' in horror , that has plenty of new directoral talent working for the love of horror, that will keep horror alive and healthy for many years to come.
The underground, is awash with fresh young talent with fresh new ideas , that will always be there waiting to be discovered.

That was a very good post, And you know what I think to a large degree you are right!! well done a very true statement which I have to agree with I do admittedly expect alot based on the good Ol days.

I think one of the biggest influences on our view of the genre's past and present is that particular point in our life when we actually became fans of horror movies.:)
For instance, I started collecting horror on VHS in the late 80's when most releases in Germany and the Uk were cut to shreds, with the following notorious "dire 90's" making even the arrival of a C-class, censored DTV cheapo in your rental store into a minor feast.:p
There are others on this board, who actually had the pleasure of seeing those early 80's classics on the big cinema screen :cool:.
Some fans got into the genre around the "Scream" craze in the late 90's, even more had their first "strong horror" experience with "Saw" or "Hostel".
Each of those different eras suggests a different take on the genre as a whole.
While I personally agree that the "more experienced" fans tend to demand more "originality"/ "quality" of their genre product, it sometimes feels as if the younger ones (and those who've stayed young at heart:o) seem to have a lot more fun, as I for one wouldn't waste a minute of my lifetime with today's genre movies if I didn't enjoy them any more. (That's why I've basically stopped watching action movies- with the occasional exception, like "Rambo":woot:).
Another problem is that even long term fans are often far too focussed on what's happening in Hollywood as an indicator for the genre's health.
Fact is that much stronger and original horror has been made in Asia, other countries- such as France- and even the last decade's UK horror output is shining brightly, enjoying its fair share of fan appreciation.:o
Let's not forget that "we" don't have to sort out the "classic status" of those 70's/80's movies ourselves- it's been done over the course of decades.:D
With the current crop of genre movies, it's still totally in the open, which movies will be rewarded with a "cult fave"/"classic" reputation in the years/decades to come.....which is in fact one of many reasons why I find this current state of horror so exciting.:popcorn:

Is there no love for Drag Me To Hell?

I thought that was one of the best horror movies made in a long time.

I thought drag me to hell was pants.
But highly amusing for the comedy factor more so better than any film comedy i seen for donkeys yrs.
Horror wise ok i prob not seen as much r know as much as some ppl on here but lately i tend to find there either to teen type and just daft r they relie heavily on gore and no plot story line r anything else to offer msp 100 tears 2 eg

What we realy need is a new some1 like the past master of horror eg cronenberg argento fulci (even tho he over rated in my opinion) to give the horror gener a kick, and not some fly by night director who just wants to gets him self a name and go to any left and gets himself notice eg look at the au films apart from controversy these films have nothing to offer

Great post MTDS, I agree it is a bit of a 'treasure hunt' with plenty of hit's and misses along the way, and as you pointed out , because we are so passionate about these films there is a great feeling of disappointment when viewing a film that (to us) seems to lack this passion.

A point I'd like to bring-up, which sort of backs up what Peter was also saying is what horror released in the 00's will be considered classics of the future? For instance will the next generation of fans and forums be debating how good Saw is, or whether the Last House on the Left remake is superior to the original? The problem is we lack some perspective on this matter, as we are judging what we view now from our past experiences of the genre, whether they be good or bad and not in a longevical sense; i.e. in 10 years from now will new films such as Martyrs, Drag Me to Hell, Splinter, The Saws be remembered and hailed by many or will they just be forgotten cult relics?

I haven't seen it, although I very much want to. I've heard mainly good things about it but due to my current aversion to cinemas, I will probably have to wait for the DVD :D.

I totally agree with you Peter,when you say at what point in our lives and the genre did we start liking horror.I was lucky growing up in the uk in the 1970s, that there was loads of horror on television.In my early teens I had the joy of uncensored video, then managed to catch the arse end of the slasher genre at the cinema as I got older.

One of the things that really influenced me as a kid and teen was the books and magazines/fanzines that were about.Today with the internet,the sheer amount of information is staggering.I find it really hard to keep up with what is going on in the world of horror let alone watching any of the recent films released.

As to future classics,I think that you are on the money with Asian horror and some of the more recent French films.Though Hollywood still dictates mainstream taste and not so mainstream taste, there is a shift happening away from the USA but how big that will be only the future knows.

Bizzare eye,I'll put money on "Martyrs" being regarded as a classic in the future though in a cult way."Saw" and "Hostel" will be bench mark films for years to come though not in my house!

The state of horror now is nothing to how it was in the 90s. The main problem is IMO is that followers of the horror genre have had less time to digest the current output as opposed to what as being released in the 70s & 80s. Hell, even hacks like Lucio Fulci and Bruno Mattei are seen as classic directors of the genre now-a-days, because not only people have seen their movies until they’re engraved into our grey matter, but also because we all love sticking on our rose tinted specs.

I would rank RE: Apocalypse as the worst film i have ever seen. And remember i have seen Zombie Lake!!:eek:

Zombie Lake's a classic! :woot: :rofl:

I really enjoyed this. Much more of a return to 'scary' horror.

I'm not saying it's the best horror film I've ever seen ( but it's certainly the best I've seen in the cinema for a long time ) and it's a massive step in the right direction. Highly recommended.

I'm a total originals man,but hey,the healthy state of the 'horror economy' just now is a good thing,as it keeps the wallets supplying the money for new productions.Remember in the '90's how close horror became to going 'mainstream'? Films like Single White Female,Fatal Attraction,Sleeping with the Enemy,hell even Seven and Silence of the Lambs....these films WERE the slasher's of that decade.Remember how close icons like Freddy,Jason,Myers,ChuckyLeatherface and company came to going out?
The one thing that revitalised it all back then was the success of SCREAM,which gave us new baddies in the slasher genre,as in Urban Legends,IKWYDLS,etc,etc.
As I say,I'm not a fan of all these remakes,some have surprised me and I've actually enjoyed them.A lot of them have been dire.There have been some great 'original' films such as SAW and the likes.....But the main thing is;whilst these 'bigger' money spinners are making money,then some fatcat studio exec is always gonna greenlight a new horror movie....some may be dreadful....but one or two gems may pop up and will fall into the horror history books,and that I dare say,is what we need;-for horror to constantly reinject itself with new opportunities.
Oh and btw,I think SEVEN and LAMBS are great,but come on let's be honest,they weren't out and out horrors......;)

I find it really interesting that in the so called "caring, sharing '90s" slashers went mainstream with big stars appearing in horror/thrillers.Anyone have any thoughts on why this happened?

I think the present remake craze is a major symptom of society eating itself or perhaps it is a new art movement with each new remake a variation on a theme.Welcome to horror jazz!

What do people think of the present state of the underground horror scene?I'm bored out of my skull watching serial killer/snuff films that are nothing more than show cases for special effects teams.The only one I really liked was "Slaughter Vomit Dolls" as that truly seemed to be one man's vision and fetish being put out for all the world to see.I didn't mind "Philosophy of a Knife" either, although it was an arse numbing watch at 4 hours.

It was a studio bandwagon mate.It kinda rolled on from the success of SILENCE OF THE LAMBS...Remember films like FALLEN,THE BONE COLLECTOR and COPYCAT?
Now,these are no classics,but I was chuffed when studio produced films like URBAN LEGENDS,BRIDE OF CHUCKY,I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SUMMER and VALENTINE began spouting their heads.As I say,they may not have been classics,but they began to steer horror films back to their origins and away from the 'glitz' of big star casts and mediocre serial thrillers.......:)

Yeah, there was a lot of jumping on the band wagon at that time.I'm just interested in why these films where made at that time as cinema screens seemed full with serial killers and destruction of the family/individual type films.I'm trying to think of the socio-economic climate of the time and did this effect the content of these films.

Maybe America saw Saddam Hussein as the monster serial killer and had to put it/him to rights?
Remember you had the James Bulger case as well.Perhaps studios felt it was safer to put Chucky,et al to rest for a while? Maybe put a more 'human face' on the monster?What do you all reckon?
Why did the horror flick go towards the thriller chiller in the nineties?

Investors are starting to look at Horror Game franchise's for big screen adaptations , ie Resi Evil, Silent Hill and are eagerly eyeing the new wave of horror games that are heading to our consoles and maybe a cinema then BluRay retailer near you very soon. Horror and Games seems to be very much in vogue at the moment .

Film and Game colaborations in both directions makes perfect sense as both are the 2 top selling forms of Home Enterainment,

I know Dead Space is to get the film treatment and SAW is getting a game release, so with an unexpected allie with Game's , then maybe more joint colaborations between Film makers and Game dev's may not just be enough to see horror survive in the world of Hi Def, but could supply film makers with enough fresh ideas that could , quite possibly, be the start of a 'NEW' Golden Age for Horror Film.

My only worry is that as film playback for us fans gets more , clearer and detailed in this booming HD Era, that older films from the likes of Fulci, Franco, D' Amato etc, wont surive in the HD World and will disappear forever, with only their remakes left for future generations.

I wouldn't worry too much, seeing as those directors shot in 35mm.

Mostpeople wont notice or care if the film sourced from a good master, only truly neck-bearded cinemaphiles will notice the difference and then they'd be too busy fretting about bitrates to notice what is actually going on with the visual quality.

To come back to this point I think you have a valid point about the more 'human' face of horror. It's well documented that public opinion is strongly governed by what is written or broadcasted in the media, therefore studios were able to play on these new fears. This coupled with the rising availability of the internet in people's homes opened new doors, and with it new monsters. These new possibilities meant that Freddy, Jason, Chucky et al were seen more as cartoon efigy's than monsters, their image had become stale as terror bore the fact into our brains that the ordinary looking guy or girl next door could be capable of disembowling you. This 'fear of the ordinary individual' has gradually taken us into the stage we are in now with the torture porn film industry; look at our monsters: Jigsaw (an ill man), The 'hunters' in Hostel... alarmingly normal people who we can almost relate to and identify with. With the new output from the genre like Eden Lake and The Children we are looking at a very disturbing portrayl of our horror monster template, where we fear our everyday lives and society itself. It's as if the horror genre is an allegory for the downfall of mankind. We start with the fantastical 2D template of a killer (Jason the unkillable) and we progress through to a kid like any you could walk by in the street any day of the week... what's next?! Killer embryos and DNA?! When everyday life starts to become what nightmares are made of, we need to look at why and where this fear stems from, and whether it is justified...

I had "Hostel" and "Saw" pegged as responses to America's treatment of prisoners in the "war on terror".It's interesting to note that the present state of the world reflects that of the early 80s:war in Afghanistan,terrorist attacks on main land Britain and economic chaos.And the films we are getting at the moment:"Friday the 13th","My Bloody Valentine" etc...

Yes, with all the remakes at the moment of genre classics, it's as though we have almost come full circle...

Interesting points about Hostel and Saw MTDS, I'm just not convinced... What I see is man-made monsters torturing normal, relatable people (in the case of Hostel 'innocent' civilians - introducing a fear of unknown foreign locations, and the 'unusual' to the gore hungry masses, just as Texas Chain Saw Massacre introduced the fear of remote American towns; and in the case of Saw seemingly innocent people who had inner guilt or 'flaws', as seen by Jigsaw who were then exploited so they could be 'better people'- and again who are very relatable characters). In some ways I can see where you are coming from in some fashion where Hostel is concerned: The greedy rich paying huge amounts of money to satisfy their deep, dark desires to torture innocents, but to me there seems a bigger picture to the direction the genre is sliding toward. Great points though mate. :)

The way the world is at present with Korea keen to arm, we could be looking at a new phase in the post apocalypse genre!!

You may be right there - Shameless are looking at releasing a line of Post-Apocalypse films too... How uncanny! :rofl: