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Almar@Cult Labs 31st May 2010 05:59 PM

Inferno - The BBFC Verdict (carry the chat about the BBFC on here only!)
 
I think the debate on the potential six second cut has run its course but I know some of you will want to continue it - please only do that on this thread and leave the others clear for other aspects of the film and the release.

We do like free debate on here but if some people do wish to express an opinion that they'd rather not buy the release or wish to support it please respect those views - things were starting to get a bit heated on the previous thread - it's only a disc with a film on it folks! A lot of effort is going into making it good - we can't change UK censorship but goodness knows we've all tried! ;)

nekromantik 31st May 2010 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almar@Cult Labs (Post 83082)
We do like free debate on here but if some people do wish to express an opinion that they'd rather not buy the release or wish to support it please respect those views - things were starting to get a bit heated on the previous thread - it's only a disc with a film on it folks! A lot of effort is going into making it good - we can't change UK censorship but goodness knows we've all tried! ;)

Well said there Almar :clap:

I fully support Arrow :)

Stephen@Cult Labs 31st May 2010 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekromantik (Post 83087)
Well said there Almar :clap:

I fully support Arrow :)

Indeed.On both counts :cool:

phelings 31st May 2010 08:22 PM

If the BBFC do insist on cutting the scene I think an appeal would be worthwhile.
I guess this might cost Arrow money and the BBFC are known to deliberately delay decisions in the hope the films will go away but the shot is nothing compared to the animal killing in other films.
If the BBFC take the attitude that the death of the mouse was setup purely for the shot so that makes it cruel then its a lost cause , but cats eating mice is a natural course of events and that may enable it to be passed.

Maybe the decision will be as important as the change to R18's in 2000

DeadAlive 31st May 2010 08:38 PM

The BBFC have lightened up quite a bit, but miracles are not their forte.

phelings 31st May 2010 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadAlive (Post 83132)
The BBFC have lightened up quite a bit, but miracles are not their forte.


Which is why the appeals people might need a call

pedromonkey 31st May 2010 09:33 PM

ive never seen the film and if the scene is of a cat eating a rat is it really needed, i know that i could probably live without it, sometimes people just have to drop it and take what they can get and why wouldn't anyone want to buy arrow's release, they're the best dvd company in the country, no company that im aware of listens to fans, and as Almar said, its only a disc with a film on it....

Zombie Dude 31st May 2010 10:01 PM

Really this only bothers me because I'm so opposed to censorship in films. I fully believe if enough people email in, that the cut will be waived.

phelings 31st May 2010 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Dude (Post 83164)
Really this only bothers me because I'm so opposed to censorship in films. I fully believe if enough people email in, that the cut will be waived.

"I am lead to believe that the BBFC will be asking for 5 seconds of cuts to the classic Dario Argento film Inferno because of a shot of a cat eating a mouse/rat.
While I can understand the BBFC stance on the extreme animal cruelty seen in many Italian films of the 70's and 80's I think a natural event like a cat eating a mouse being removed seems a bit extreme today .

As short as the cut is this will damage the sales of the Arrow title as film fans will search out uncut foreign releases.

I also ask what cuts of this nature are done for? What do they achieve?
The animal is dead so cutting the incident will not bring them back to life.
Footage like this is outlawed pretty much worldwide now so leaving it in will not encourage other film makers to follow suit.

I would be interested in your views on this and whether you can confirm the cuts will go ahead"



See if this gets anywhere

User1138 31st May 2010 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelings (Post 83152)
Which is why the appeals people might need a call

My concern with this is that, as you mentioned on another thread, the cut version of Last House On The Left at the time of the AB release went through the Appeals process and the comment made was that the the Video Appeals Committee thought that the BBFC had been too lenient and they wanted to take more out of the film.

Yes the VAC is the next step in the process, but there are never any guarantees of success, but Arrow still have to fight the decision.

dan 31st May 2010 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelings (Post 83166)
"I also ask what cuts of this nature are done for? What do they achieve?

i doubt that even the bbfc could answer that, their policies are so obscure and ambiguous that they could not give a rational answer, they would probably simply quote some ridiculous government regulation and refuse to comment further, like i have said before, these types of regulations with bbfc the judgment is alway subjective and inconsistent, what passes for one film is cut for the next

Daemonia 1st June 2010 12:20 AM

Whilst I applaud how far the BBFC have come, their answers to my queries over the years have always been rather vague and ambiguous. When I asked them recently about their stance on sexual violence, and I Spit On Your Grave in particular, they replied with some garbled nonsense about how it might affect someone...somewhere...but they don't know who or why and have no actual evidence to back up these claims...but it *might* cause harm to some unkown individuals. I asked them to specifically state who was at risk and they couldn't answer me. Can anyone cite an actual case where someone has committed the crime of rape after watching a film like I Spit On Your Grave..? Their rationale on this kind of content is just as ridiculous as Ferman's insistence that The Exorcist wouldn't be passed uncut (or at all) on home video since *some random teenage girl* might watch it on TV in her bedroom and get disturbed by it. What a load of crap.

As for Inferno, I hope the BBFC will see sense. Cutting the scene achieves nothing and, as we've seen already, will cause a number of folks to boycott the release. I'd like to know how the BBFC can justify harming the prospects of UK businesses like this.

springjack 1st June 2010 12:44 AM

I donīt think the natural order of things in life should be consedered as animal violence.

One thing is to butcher some animal...

Zombie Dude 1st June 2010 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelings (Post 83166)
I also ask what cuts of this nature are done for? What do they achieve?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemonia (Post 83176)
When I asked them recently about their stance on sexual violence, and I Spit On Your Grave in particular, they replied with some garbled nonsense about how it might affect someone...somewhere...but they don't know who or why and have no actual evidence to back up these claims...but it *might* cause harm to some unkown individuals. I asked them to specifically state who was at risk and they couldn't answer me. Can anyone cite an actual case where someone has committed the crime of rape after watching a film like I Spit On Your Grave..?

See that's the thing, esspecially in terms of I Spit On Your Grave. If anything, people are repulsed by this sort of thing (rape, violence) and it would be highly unlikely that they would then procede to go out and commit such acts. Personally I think it raises awareness that horrible things do happen out there. These films are certainly not promoting these acts.

The fact the the BBFC cannot give a specific reason for such cuts just shows that there is no real need for them.

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 07:21 AM

Even though I was one of the few who did appeal the cuts too via e-mail, I'd be very surprised if the bbfc reversed their decision to be honest.

Unless it can be proven that the scene in question was a natural act, and not staged for the camera (very unlikely) then my take on it is that the cut will stay, as the bbfc are only following the law in respect of the animal cruelty act (albeit a very ambiguous and sometimes vague law). So... don't hold your breath! ;)

Although, cut or no cut I'll definitely be picking up the Arrow release. As I've mentioned before, while it's disappointing that Inferno didn't make it through 100% uncut, for 5 seconds of cat on mouse action I am not going to boycott what is going to be a phenomenal package. The amount of work and effort that has gone into Arrow's previous releases (the blus in particular) is clear to see, and I'm sure Inferno will be no exception.

thundercrack 1st June 2010 10:17 AM

So how cut is the Arrow DVD then, as the BBFC site doesn't list the Arrow submission, just the old cuts

Zombie Dude 1st June 2010 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundercrack (Post 83224)
So how cut is the Arrow DVD then, as the BBFC site doesn't list the Arrow submission, just the old cuts

I think they're not yet listed as they are currently reviewing the cut.

Calum 1st June 2010 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundercrack (Post 83224)
So how cut is the Arrow DVD then, as the BBFC site doesn't list the Arrow submission, just the old cuts

You're not going to notice the five seconds of the cat eating the mouse - whether they are there or not there. Seriously. Those telling you you really need to see this very brief moment are lying. I used to have the old widescreen VHS and never noticed, when I got Inferno on DVD, that this scene was even back in the movie. It's that brief.

Nika 1st June 2010 10:54 AM

I've seen the movie 3 times in the last year and a half and I don't even remember the scene. So I'm sure I'm not going to miss it

Calum, is there any word on when this will get released? is August still standing or will that change? I'm so excited for the release I just can't bare the wait :P

Calum 1st June 2010 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nika (Post 83236)
I've seen the movie 3 times in the last year and a half and I don't even remember the scene. So I'm sure I'm not going to miss it

Calum, is there any word on when this will get released? is August still standing or will that change? I'm so excited for the release I just can't bare the wait :P

Think so, but one for Almar!

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 01:09 PM

Still on for 2nd August :pray:

nekromantik 1st June 2010 01:41 PM

I so hope I got money for this come August.
I just seen the mouse scene and its nothing, wont be missed like people have been saying.
I not seen the movie but from what people have been saying it has nothing to do with the story so should not be a deal breaker.

Nika 1st June 2010 01:55 PM

Oh thats good news Almar, Im keeping my fingers crossed! :D

brain dead 1st June 2010 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almar@Cult Labs (Post 83295)
Still on for 2nd August :pray:

And Amazon now have the preorder up (or maybe they did before, but I never noticed :lol: )

amazon. co .uk/ Dario-Argentos-Inferno-Blu-ray/dp/B003OC99HQ/
(without the spaces)

Nika 1st June 2010 02:13 PM

Nice! I pre-orderd it.


Tenebrae, Deep Red and Phenomena are still available on Amazon for pre-ordering as Blu-rays, is nothing of that true?

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 02:28 PM

Tenebrae might be, Deep Red is not and Phenomena a maybe!

Nika 1st June 2010 02:30 PM

Ok thanks Almar! I'll keep my fingers crossed again (running out of fingers to cross lol).

too bad about Deep Red but I wanted Tenebrae more anyway. But I guess the release date could get pushed back if it's a Blu-ray.

nekromantik 1st June 2010 02:31 PM

will Deep Red be a 2 disc DVD set or only 1 almar?

Peter Neal 1st June 2010 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calum (Post 83233)
You're not going to notice the five seconds of the cat eating the mouse - whether they are there or not there. Seriously. Those telling you you really need to see this very brief moment are lying. I used to have the old widescreen VHS and never noticed, when I got Inferno on DVD, that this scene was even back in the movie. It's that brief.

I'd second that as I only noticed the difference- when watching the ABUS DVD after being perfectly happy with my "Inferno" UK laserdisc for quite some years- because I was very closely looking out for it.:)

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekromantik (Post 83309)
will Deep Red be a 2 disc DVD set or only 1 almar?

I couldn't honestly tell you yet!

nekromantik 1st June 2010 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almar@Cult Labs (Post 83312)
I couldn't honestly tell you yet!

:laugh:

fair enough
looks like a awesome release from the extras list Calum gave. :woot:

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 02:46 PM

It'll be down to space so as soon as they've worked that out I'll let y'all know.

Daemonia 1st June 2010 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekromantik (Post 83314)
:laugh:

fair enough
looks like a awesome release from the extras list Calum gave. :woot:

It certainly does. Looking forward to this one.

Any idea when the news will be in regarding the BBFC's second look at the scene in question..? Hopefully they won't hold things up too much and don't cause the release date to be put back. Also, if the cut is retained, will this slow things down if the master has to be amended in accordance with the BBFC's demands?

nekromantik 1st June 2010 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemonia (Post 83316)
It certainly does. Looking forward to this one.

Any idea when the news will be in regarding the BBFC's second look at the scene in question..? Hopefully they won't hold things up too much and don't cause the release date to be put back. Also, if the cut is retained, will this slow things down if the master has to be amended in accordance with the BBFC's demands?

yeah good question.
if they take their time then it might mean there will be a delay.
Doubt the cut would cause anymore delays as if current dat is 2nd august then thats with the cut i suspect.

Nika 1st June 2010 02:56 PM

Ugh indeed I hope they don't hold it up. How long did it take them the first time?

Daemonia 1st June 2010 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nika (Post 83320)
Ugh indeed I hope they don't hold it up. How long did it take them the first time?

Not sure, but we were waiting some weeks before a response arrived via Almar.

Almar@Cult Labs 1st June 2010 03:43 PM

And let's leave it at that please. This cut is turning into an online debate nightmare! It's something many of you feel strongly about on either side which is absolutely fine but I don't want it to cause any fallouts so tongues may have to be bitten please.

After all - has no one any respect for the poor mouse? ;)

Calum 1st June 2010 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanyang Man (Post 83332)
Obviously, having been directly involved in the product it's in your best interest to promote the benefits of the product as it stands, and I can appreciate that. However, I haven't seen any member of these forums so far in either thread relating to the matter state categorically that anyone has to see the scene in question; all I've seen so far is people state their opinions and personal feelings, as well as disappointment over the fact that there has been a cut demanded, as well as put forward their personal preferences as consumers not to purchase a certain product for the reasons stated.

Having stated my own thoughts and feelings on the matter, and again not attempting to sway anyone one way or the other, I find it personally offensive as well as unprofessional that, as someone involved in the project (and thereby a representative of Arrow), you shold come out with the blanket statement that people like myself who are simply offering up alternate points of view are flagrant "liars" for expressing those points of view. So much for "friendly forums" -- offer a differnce of opinon, get told you're a "liar" and discredited for doing so. Wow...just like, wow... :shocked:

First of all massive apologies if you felt this was directed towards anyone. It wasn't.

Second of all, no one has expressed they need to see the cut - they have just, rightly, explained some frustration with the BBFC. As I have stated - people should email the BBFC and tell them about their anger (which they have) and as I also explained earlier, I sympathise with those who want the most complete version of any film. I was merely maintaining for those who have not seen Inferno before that this cut will not be noticeable.

Thirdly, and I need to stress this too, I'm no more a representative of Arrow than Almar is. I'm employed on a freelance basis to do extra features on their DVDs and the opinion I gave was just mine. Equally, if I were to give an opinion on - say - SFX magazine (which I contribute to) it would be as a freelancer for them rather than as a direct employee.

Hope that is cleared up and, again, deeply sorry if my comment offended you. :)


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