BBFC Problem Films

[Pete]

Milius is crazy! If he thinks tripping a horse and making it fall over spikes is not cruel, then i dont know what is!

[mark meakin]

Originally Posted by Gojirosan

Yeah, they wanted to sue the BBFC for defamation!

The same stuntman Terry Leonard also worked on the earlier Milius film The Wind & The Lion (1975) (Still unreleased here on dvd but uncut in Oz & other countries).He claimed that more stuntmen were injured on that shoot than horses.The nastiest fall in CTB is the one where Schwarzenegger 'chops' at the legs of a galloping horse.It's very hard to believe that this horse was not hurt in some way as it looks like a wire-trip.

[mark meakin]

Originally Posted by loops

Just watched a clip from the 1936 Charge of the Light Brigade and the amount of horse trips was unbelievable! It's no wonder it hasn't been submitted to the BBFC for DVD.

It remains uncut when screened on BBC 2 to this day despite the fact films like Chato's Land & Ulzana's Raid started to be cut for animal cruelty in the 90s.Earlier screenings throughout the 80s of both were uncut (horsefall wise,but not the violence).Errol Flynn himself was apparently disgusted as many horses were killed outright or had to be put down.If you watch closely many of the falls are the same shot from different camera angles,but this does not excuse the cruelty.After a horse was killed in a clifftop fall during Jesse James (1939),Hollywood was forced to change it's attitude to animal welfare & the running W (The trip-wire) was supposedly outlawed,though it was obviously used in the films 1940 sequel The Return Of Frank James.That was probably made before the law was properly introduced.Most westerns of the 40s & 50s used the sidefall where the rider pulls on the reins to bring the horse down in a safe fashion though it does look less realistic.Then again at least the horses lived to gallop another day.

[vincenzo]

Originally Posted by mark meakin

If you watch closely many of the falls are the same shot from different camera angles,but this does not excuse the cruelty.

I still have the old (uncut) Warner video and yes the falls are definitely the same shots filmed from different angles. Cleverly done but still cruel & repellent.

It was cut for a 'U' for its original cinema release way back in the 30's.

[mark meakin]

Originally Posted by vincenzo

I still have the old (uncut) Warner video and yes the falls are definitely the same shots filmed from different angles. Cleverly done but still cruel & repellent.

It was cut for a 'U' for its original cinema release way back in the 30's.

I noticed Jesse James was actually cut in the 1930s for its UK cinema release,though I'm not sure the cut was to the clifftop fall.Yet as you know Vince, Taras Bulba was cut for this reason though the horses at the climax were dummies.I'm amazed an earlier jump with a real horse is apparently intact in the new UK dvd from Optimum as it lands badly.All the later BBFC cuts in the film have been waived though.

[Pete]

I've never seen Jesse James but i have seen the fall. It looks like they put the horse on slide.

[mark meakin]

Originally Posted by loops

I've never seen Jesse James but i have seen the fall. It looks like they put the horse on slide.

Yes it appears to go on its back down something.The 1956 western THE TRUE STORY OF JESSE JAMES was cut as it re-uses footage from the scene.However it looks like possible out-take footage of the horse killed as one goes down on its back (As seen in the'39' version),but the other lands very badly head first (The horse more than likely killed).The TSOJJ definitely uses footage of two different jumps while the 1939 version may use a repeated shot.I've added screencaps on the Worldwidedvdforums for the TSOJJ in the UKDVDCUTS section.Bit blurry as they are from a DVD-R of an uncut Film Four screening.Since I recorded the film off the channel it's been shown again only in the censored version.

[Pete]

If you look caerfully at the scene in Django when he is trying to escape with the gold and he sets his gatling gun off. When the horses run away one of them falls and you can see wires attached to its legs.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by mark meakin

.Most westerns of the 40s & 50s used the sidefall where the rider pulls on the reins to bring the horse down in a safe fashion though it does look less realistic.Then again at least the horses lived to gallop another day.

Those type of falls dont bother me because the horses are trained to do that. But some filmakers are to lazy to train horses and would rather use wires.

I read the horsefall in Pat Garret and Billy the Kid was the only option because Peckinpah actually wanted to kill it to get a more spectacular fall.

[vincenzo]

The horse in Jesse James was killed by being ridden off a cliff into a river.



Taras Bulba amazes me too Mark. The old cinema cuts were made for a 'U', yet the footage removed was mostly dummy horsefalls. The violence (mild by today's standards) was left intact.

Michael York's horse is tripped by roadside bandits in The Four Musketeers (similar to the Donald Pleasence scene cut from Soldier Blue) though somehow the BBFC missed it (amongst other things). Faye Dunaway's horse is also tripped in a similar fashion.