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-   -   SHAM202/035 - Four Flies on Grey Velvet: Shameless has a question! (https://www.cult-labs.com/forums/four-flies-grey-velvet/6846-sham202-035-four-flies-grey-velvet-shameless-has-question.html)

Sarah@Cult Labs 27th September 2011 01:29 PM

SHAM202/035 - Four Flies on Grey Velvet: Shameless has a question!
 
Shameless are preparing to start the authoring process on Four Flies on Grey Velvet and have a question they'd like to put to Cult Labs members.

They have several short sequences which are damaged (VHS quality to look at) and so have been removed from the HD master.

Shameless want to know would you like to see these sequences reinstated so that you can see the film in its entirety, even though the PQ will occasionally vary?

Or would you like them to be left out so that the film is entirely in glorious HD, with no varying PQ, but have these sequences included as "missing scenes" in the extras?

I'm asking for comments rather than a straightforward poll vote so that Shameless can see your opinions on this rather than just numbers.

Paul@TheOverlook 27th September 2011 01:34 PM

Depends on what it is - if it's minor ends and beginnings to scenes then it would probably be better to leave them as extras.

Is there no way a branching version can be made? It's the obvious choice as it would please everyone but I have no idea what the financial ranifications would be...

Slippery Jack 27th September 2011 01:48 PM

Personally I'd prefer to have them as 'missing scenes' in the extras. I found the massive jump in quality really distracting when they did it on the old releases of The Wicker Man and Witchfinder General. But then, as Paul says, it depends what the scenes are . . .

PaulD 27th September 2011 01:59 PM

Same as has been said so far - offer film with or without scenes via branching. If that's not an option then, assuming the scenes are part of the film as established and not newly found scenes I'd probably want them retained regardless of quality. Would be a bit odd to have a shorter version of the film released.

Hammer time 27th September 2011 02:06 PM

+1 for Branching
I would like to see them as extras but thats just personal preference,Vhs inserts look bad enough on a dvd(eg Absurd) let alone a blu,

bedorca 27th September 2011 02:07 PM

It was done with Baba Yaga for example, so I would have no problem with the scenes being in the "polished" final print.

After all, it was Argento's intended vision regardlessly of quaility

Given the modern technologies, too many people these days fuss about the sharpness of the sound and quality of the picture and forget what made the film great in the first place.......

Slippery Jack 27th September 2011 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedorca (Post 184886)
Given the modern technologies, too many people these days fuss about the sharpness of the sound and quality of the picture and forget what made the film great in the first place.......

That's all well and good, but I think it would be more than a minor distraction for the film to suddenly jump from BD to VHS quality. I'd rather see it all in VHS than that, but that's just me :crazy: . . .

gag 27th September 2011 02:42 PM

you cant please every one but personaly if its not to much of a distraction id rather it be seen in full...lets face it if you didnt without asking then you get some one whinging its not uncut you just cant please every one....also depends what exactly the scenes are if its just a few seconds or min clips of nowt much eg a conversatin that realy doesnt mean to much and wont spoil the film if its missing then leave it out..

Demoncrat 27th September 2011 02:53 PM

as previously stated if the scenes are not detracting anything from the actual story, as extras.

BUT

if they add overall to the film PLEASE include. could care less about drop in quality. (im an Ed Wood fan hahahaha so this is not a problem for me...)

the blob 27th September 2011 02:53 PM

I'm another for branching..

I'd probably end up watching without the scenes if they're minor but there might be some who boycott for it's 'incompleteness'..

vaultkeeper 27th September 2011 03:22 PM

I would prefer both versions, like on the special edtion of My Bloody Valentine, that you can choose between official thearatical version and final print, that way everyone would be satisfied.

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 27th September 2011 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaultkeeper (Post 184939)
I would prefer both versions, like on the special edtion of My Bloody Valentine, that you can choose between official thearatical version and final print, that way everyone would be satisfied.

A perfect solution. :nod:

However if this cannot be done, I'd be another who'd prefer them as extras if not integral to the story or flow of the film.

Slippery Jack 27th September 2011 04:24 PM

Sarah, any chance of Shameless giving any info on what these scenes consist of . . . ?

the blob 27th September 2011 04:32 PM

Two versions would be another alternative but at a runtime of over 100 mins each, it's a pretty high profile release and I wouldn't like to see the encoding compromised with too low a bitrate.

Stephen@Cult Labs 27th September 2011 04:50 PM

Hmmmm, it's a tough one. You won't be able to please everyone. I know it's only a few seconds here and there and it's already been mentioned but if it is financially possible, branching the snippits would be the best solution. If not, leave them out and have them as extras.

ytsejam1138 27th September 2011 06:55 PM

+1 for branching.

bdc 27th September 2011 07:34 PM

+1

vaultkeeper 27th September 2011 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the blob (Post 184960)
Two versions would be another alternative but at a runtime of over 100 mins each, it's a pretty high profile release and I wouldn't like to see the encoding compromised with too low a bitrate.

Well it worked with Lions Gate release of My Bloody Valentine

PaulD 27th September 2011 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaultkeeper (Post 185048)
Well it worked with Lions Gate release of My Bloody Valentine

Doesn't this disc just use branching though?

Oddly enough, I was going to say it works well enough on Shameless' Cannibal Holocaust :)

the blob 27th September 2011 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulD (Post 185061)
Doesn't this disc just use branching though?

Oddly enough, I was going to say it works well enough on Shameless' Cannibal Holocaust :)

I believe My Bloody Valentine is branched. Seems to work well on CH but it seems there will be at least one other immediate competitor for Four Flies on BD so no doubt anyone wanting to import will be comparing.

The Reaper Man@Cult Labs 27th September 2011 08:29 PM

I'll go for branching too.....but if it's a choice,well depends what those scenes are and how pivotal they are to the film.

Demdike@Cult Labs 27th September 2011 09:08 PM

The branching option does seem the most popular.

it really does depend on what is actually in the scenes.

If its a murder or a critical piece of dialogue for example then it HAS to be in the film.

If its just a car driving away, or a door closing etc then i guess the scenes could be left out.

A tough call to make without more info of the scenes.

Sobral 27th September 2011 09:52 PM

Since they're "short scenes" I'd rather have them as extras.

MTRodaba2468 28th September 2011 12:45 AM

I would prefer the branching option, so that people could choose between a complete cut with varying quality, or a slightly abridged cut in full HD. As stated, Lionsgate did the same thing to good effect with their release of My Bloody Valentine.

bgart13 28th September 2011 02:33 AM

Would need to at least see some screen caps of how poor the quality actually is, I think. And I'm not goofing just to get a peek, I'm serious. Are they actually from VHS or are they just scratched up (green lines, etc)?

Sarah@Cult Labs 28th September 2011 09:09 AM

As far as I know it's just damaged footage from the original that they had to leave out when they had a HD master made.

As for all the comments about a "branching option" - it's not actually an option at this stage because Shameless haven't given it to me as an option to present to you. It may be something they'll consider after seeing these comments but for now the only two options are leaving the footage in, or taking it out and including it as an extra.

I'll see if Shameless can give me more details on what the scenes consist of, but I doubt I'll be able to get screenshots of the quality as the guys there are super-busy at the moment!

Sarah@Cult Labs 28th September 2011 10:06 AM

Just had a wee bit more info from Shameless.

Firstly, they are looking into branching but it could be too costly for them to do so at the moment it's just not an option. It's that old production costs vs. sales issue that rears its ugly head quite regularly for small companies like Shameless.

They're super-busy at the moment so I couldn't get specifics as to where the scenes come in the film but they could tell be that half of the damage looks like reel-change-damage and therefore half of the damaged scenes/sequences are not really consequential to the flow of the film.

However, the other half of the sequences/scenes may be relevant to the scene immediately following (so, I would imagine, establishing shots and the like).

So... Leave them in or take them out and include them as extras? It's a tough decision which is why Shameless are interested in the opinions of you guys!

Demoncrat 28th September 2011 10:20 AM

Then leave them in. on my shitty tv itl make no difference anyway haha. seriously though, retain the film as a whole please.

antmumford 28th September 2011 11:21 AM

Originally I would have said have them as extras but thinking about it more it may be best to keep them in, this way you can market the film as being the most complete cut available (which will be a real must buy for Argento fans). I guess Shameless could have a pre warning comment come up at the beginning to state that the film contains scenes that drop in image quality, or something along those lines.
It will definitely be a 'completist' release for some people who'd want the full directors intended version of the film.
Just my thoughts!

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 28th September 2011 11:42 AM

On hearing the updated information from Shameless, I would be another who is now swaying towards leaving them in (if branching is not possible), rather than including them as extras.

Establishing shots would definitely look better as part of the film in my opinion, and may look slightly odd as stand-alone scenes presented in the extras.

Paul@TheOverlook 28th September 2011 11:57 AM

I think adding lesser quallity inserts into DVD is fine but it's pretty much a deal-breaker when it comes to Blu-ray for me I'm affraid.

Marc Morris 28th September 2011 12:01 PM

I'm the one working on the edit - The scenes will be branched. That way you have the option of staying with HD or watching with lesser quality insert scenes (they are DVD quality and not from VHS).

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 28th September 2011 12:03 PM

It worked quite well in Lionsgate's release of MBV.

I know you can choose whether you want to watch the theatrical or unrated version (with the lower-res inserts) but you'd have to be crazy to want to watch the theatrical cut with all the 'best bits' missing. ;)

bizarre_eye@Cult Labs 28th September 2011 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Morris (Post 185308)
I'm the one working on the edit - The scenes will be branched. That way you have the option of staying with HD or watching with lesser quality scenes (they are DVD quality and not from VHS).

Thanks for the confirmation, Marc. :)

antmumford 28th September 2011 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Morris (Post 185308)
I'm the one working on the edit - The scenes will be branched. That way you have the option of staying with HD or watching with lesser quality insert scenes (they are DVD quality and not from VHS).

Perfect, I think that's exactly what we needed to hear. Top work Marc, keep up the well appreciated and fantastic work :clap:

Sarah@Cult Labs 28th September 2011 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Morris (Post 185308)
I'm the one working on the edit - The scenes will be branched. That way you have the option of staying with HD or watching with lesser quality insert scenes (they are DVD quality and not from VHS).

Thanks Marc! :)

And apologies for confusion over the quality level. I was told VHS quality originally but obviously this wasn't right.

Paul@TheOverlook 28th September 2011 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Morris (Post 185308)
I'm the one working on the edit - The scenes will be branched. That way you have the option of staying with HD or watching with lesser quality insert scenes (they are DVD quality and not from VHS).

Thanks for the info, Marc :clap:

Well that will probably bring this (rather pointless) thread to an end, then :D

DVD quality inserts are more than a perfect substitue anyway ;)

Sarah@Cult Labs 28th September 2011 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul@Lovelockandload (Post 185342)
Well that will probably bring this (rather pointless) thread to an end, then :D

Not sure how this thread is pointless since Shameless asked me to post it in order to garner opinion. Opinions which, unless I'm mistaken, people gave and Shameless took note. Branching was only considered after it was suggested on here. At least, it wasn't given to me in Shameless' original list of options.

I'd say that had a point.

Paul@TheOverlook 28th September 2011 12:45 PM

Oh dear, someone needs a coffee.


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PaulD 28th September 2011 12:54 PM

That's excellent news! A perfect solution.


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