Your right there is still a lot of violence and nastiness in the film but in my opinion it does tone it down a bit, after all it is the most notorious scene in the film. Most people who haven't actually seen it but want to have most probably heard about the notorious scene. Imagine their dismay if they went to watch it and the scene that's been hyped up to them wasn't in the film in it's entirety (A bit like hearing about the splinter in the eye scene in Zombie flesh eaters then getting yourself the old cut version). In the late 80's when I was getting into this sort of stuff it took me a while to track down NYR and before I had seen it the eye/nipple scene was always the bit that would get pointed out i.e. "You've gotta see NYR, there's a scene with a razor blade..." etc.

If a film is cut worldwide there is nothing you can do about it and if this was the case I wouldn't hesitate picking something up, but if I know I can get an uncut one from somewhere that will always be the road I will go down.

Depending on what the extras are on the Shameless disc I may get it second hand or cheaper later on but until then I will stick with my glorious in uncut HD Blue Underground edition ;)

I know what your saying as I to got into collecting films in mid 80's and was mad when I tracked down Ferox and it was the cut version, as i'd already seen it uncut , and yes 19s or whatever is long in film, especially if spread out around a few kill scenes. I dont dispute that.
What I was saying was ok it's cut, but it's still worth putting out as theres plenty who rely on the UK market for their Horror films as well as the casual buyer who likes to dip into Horror and for them and completists it's a pretty good package.

No worries.

I was not referring to you in partucular, I just quoted what you said and used as a mean to justify something that I was thinking.

This type of this happens in all forums, and this one is no different.
There are people like myself that only express their opinion without any meaning of attacking and there are others who say things to attack.

I´ll give you an example regarding an Arrow release where I stated the I would not buy the product in question just because it was cut. I based my veredict for not buying the dvd in question because some review said the cuts made were very noticable in picture and sound.

One of the responses that I had was ""Don´t like it, don´t buy it.

It´s because of that example that I keep myself ruling my opinion.

I´m not a fanboy of Arrow or Shameless, but I can say that I bought almost all of their releases and I´m very happy with all the products that I bought.

A forum like this is very helpfull but , as you may know, sometimes there are people who take some thoughts the wrong way.

Agreed.

Sometimes I think messages get 'lost in translation'. What may sound benign to the poster may sound insulting to the recipient (or vice versa). The problem with the internet is that posts are extremely subjective, and are open to massive interpretation by the reader(s). Also, we have such a diverse mix of people from all different cultures here at Cult Labs that things are bound to get misinterprated. For the most part I think we all get on pretty well, though. :)

Take my post as an example; It could get pegged as insightfully accurate, or random waffle, or the ramblings of a pretentious twat. Neither would be completely true, however. ;)

Shameless have just let me know that the finalised running time of New York Ripper will be 90 mins and 25 secs, rated 18 by the BBFC.

Consumer Advice: Contains strong bloody violence and strong sex.

;)

Excellent news -- I especially like the consumer advice!

Sarah, what are the extra 15 seconds?

+1 on that.

What is the current missing cut
 

Sorry if this has been covered but cant seem to find out what the BBFC have cut and also if that cut is IN the Blueunderground Blu Ray?

Approx 19 seconds to one scene of a razor being run across a female bare breast and slicing into the nipple.
The scene IS intact in the BU version . Shameless have taken great care editing the scene though and its still quite nasty . .

Cheers for that mate, Its a disappointment when a nasty scene is trimmed but more incidental footage added to make 'longest available version' which has happened on a few films.

I think the original intention was to make this the longest uncut version but the BBFC wanted the nipple scene cut again (it was resubmitted recently)...

It was resubmitted again for this Blu-ray release and, when the ruling came back the same as the last one, Shameless appealed but the BBFC were not going to change their minds on that one.

Having read through this thread (and it got a bit heated, didn't it?) I thought I'd chuck in my thoughts on the matter. Firstly, I won't and never will defend censorship cuts, except where it's clearly a contravention of law. But I will defend Shameless and their enterprising efforts. I think we need to look at the history of this film in the UK so see just how far we've come. We've gone from the film prints being physically escorted out of the country at the behest of dear old Ferman to now anticipating an HD release that can be freely viewed by all and sundry (providing they are of age). Now I know it's annoying that the BBFC have cut a few seconds from it and I won't defend that, but we're in one hell of a better position than we were even 10 short years ago. You see, my logic is this, companies like Shameless keep pushing the envelope. I have no doubt that one day this film will be passed uncut, but there has to be a bit of a push first. Just look at how I Spit On Your Grave is progressing, each time it's resubmitted the cuts become less and less demanding. Unfortunately that's the game that has to be played with the BBFC here in the UK. Yes, it's far from ideal, but I for one quite like the idea of casual buyers picking up NYR and can only imagine their jaws hitting the floor at the sheer outrageousness of it. That can only be a good thing - and those interested enough will look up the film on the internet and will no doubt go on to avail themselves of an uncut copy. Those that don't probably won't care if it's cut or not and will continue along quite happily oblivious to the fact. Bottom line: Shameless are a business. Yes, they want to please the fans, but they also have to turn a profit and if this was a profitable title previously it stands to reason they'll release it again in HD. That's simple business sense. The guys at Shameless have to earn a living too, you know? Almar's a fine chap and a fellow fan, but this is his livelihood and I'm acutely aware that negative press could have an impact on that. So rather than be negative, let's be a bit more balanced and have a bit of perspective here. If you don't want to buy a BBFC-censored version, then fine. But let's not be too hard on Shameless here and the people that work for them, who strive to deliver to us, the fans, the best product possible. I mean, bloody hell, Bay of Blood on BD was more than I could have ever hoped for and it's a stunning release. Let's cut them some slack, this is the fault of the BBFC, not on the part of Shameless. Let's bear that in mind when discussing this.

Now...will I buy this? Probably not on BD, as I picked up the BU release ages ago before this was even a twinkle in the eye of Shameless, but I will pick it up on standard DVD for sure, just to see the extras and the extra footage and to have a copy of the UK version. That's my position, anyway. And I hope it does really well for Shameless. And...well...you never know, I may well end up grabbing a BD copy. I can be impulsive sometimes. ;)

You definitly have some valid points but personally I think that if a 'casual viewer' picks up any of the films that we all dearly love, but part of the ecense of why we love them has been cut, will that turn the casual viewer into a fan or just another person that sees these movies as dull and pointless. If a film cant be release in its entirety, then release something that can be, because we all agree that any cuts that are made are usually ridiculous and unnessesary but DO render the film less enjoyable. If we are true fans of these movies and also respect the directors whether it be Argento or Bianchi (lol), and we then agree to buy cut versions of their films then the BBFC have won.
Now I think Shameless are superb, their releases are great... apart from the ones with cuts, sorry but tracking down uncut films and looking forward to them being released is part of the fun, buying a cut version isnt - especially when we are free to import region 1 dvds too. If no one agrees then say so and thats fine, but Shameless could be wasting time and money releaseing cut prints because I for one wont buy them.
Im interested to hear peoples thoughts on this.

I don't really think it's wasting people's time and money. Obviously some people on here won't buy (or re-buy as the case probably is) a cut version of New York Ripper on BD if they have an uncut Blue Underground version and that's fine. However, there are a whole load of people out there who might be casually browsing the horror section of HMV, haven't heard of Lucio Fulci but are drawn to the yellow bluray case and think "Hmm..this looks interesting. I'll give it a go" and won't be bothered at all about the cuts.

Did you read my post at all? - Im not talking about wasting peoples time and money, I was saying Shameless could be wasting their own time and money as people such as myself will not buy a cut film. As for someone browsing through the DVDs in HMV and randomly coming across such films as New York Ripper - well I covered that too! - They will be buying a product that doesnt do what it says on the tin whilst also supporting the BBFC!

Personally speaking, I don't subscribe to the "Uncut Only!" view at all, not the least because I like to own varying versions of my favourite movies, so if I'm in the mood for a little variation or get interested in the impact of different edits of "controversial" scenes, I opt to watch a "censored" version from time to time.
Being used to the German brand of movie-censorship for which films more than often still have to get cut by several minutes to earn an "FSK 18", I find it hard to get too fussed over the 19 secs cut from the "Shameless" release of NYR, which still wouldn't stand a chance whatsoever to get legally released in that form in Germany, let alone being sold or displayed publicly in big "mainstream" chains or advertised in internet stores like "amazon.de".:nod:
Anyway, a sold "cut" release is no loss to neither the "uncut community", who're NOT forced to pick it up, nor "uncut labels" in the US (or Austrian) territory, as those who're buying it wouldn't have either bothereed with a few extra snippets of gore on R1 anyway or do own the uncut version already and are attracted to double-dip for exclusive extras or neat packaging.;)
So there's no real harm done to anybody...and if I wasn't such a completist I would have been perfectly happy with my slightly censored UK DVDs of "Maniac" and "NYR", as the cuts are really only obvious to those "in the know".
And as far as the cut UK releases of "Tombs of the Blind Dead" and "Mark of the Devil" go, I've been really satisfied, so I didn't bother to import from the US or anywhere else, as just from my pov, those two don't really "win" much extra viewing value through some more extra seconds I hardly miss when watching them.
But that's just my own take.:pop2:

In the particular case of the UK edit of "NYR", it's safe to say that the film still delivers in the gore department for those, who're not familiar with every bloody frame, so I find it hard to imagine anybody ramdomly picking it up and being particularly disappointed by that purchase.
It's a far cry from the 90's when "VIPCO's" VHS releases of the Fulci classics came devoid of virtually all the splattery highlights.
That was a different era altogether, so I agree 100 % with Daemonia on that the BBFC and UK genre releases having come a long way in the right direction since then!

I did read your post, just misinterpreted the essence I guess.

I think it's a bit short-sighted to see this as the BBFC winning though - I'm not their greatest advocator by any means but they do what they have to do and for now we have to accept that a UK release of NYR will have cuts. I certainly don't see buying this release as supporting the BBFC, if anything it's supporting Shameless who have done their best to bring out a complete-as-possible UK release. I definitely don't think this release will prove to be a waste of Shameless' resources though.

This is def interesting to get other peoples views on, so far Im in a minority! :blush:

Haha, I do see your point though.

I do worry that the BBFC cut issue is going to over-shadow other aspects of the release though, such as the extras, and the fact that it's the longest version of NYR ever to be release. That's something to get excited about surely?

That's what I think. Even with the cut, this is said to be the longest version of NYR anywhere, so it'll be good to own this and the uncensored version.

ive got NYR on dvd today and im just wondering is the blu the same runtime

No, the new release, which will be on Blu-ray and DVD, is a different 'build' of the film with several inserted shots that haven't been in any other releases (as far as I know) so it will have the longest running time of any version released on VHS, Laserdisc, DVD or Blu-ray so far. Unfortunately, it is still short of 19 seconds because of BBFC enforced cuts but it will be different from the DVD you bought/received today.

ahh ok

You raise some good points, but I don't think you fully understand the DVD distribution process. When a DVD label thinks about licensing a film for distribution they have no idea what the BBFC's decision will be. So they have to pay to license the film before they can submit it to the BBFC - they can't submit something they don't own the rights to, as the BBFC have to register the license-holder (all that info is on the BBFC webpages for each film you look up). So having spent a fair bit of money already - licensing the film, BBFC submission fees etc - if the BBFC come back with an unfavourable decision, what do you suggest they do? Scrap the release and lose all their investment in that title? I really don't think a small niche label like Shameless can afford to throw money away like that. So whilst I appreciate your sentiments of only putting out films that are uncut, it's financially unsound and not something a business can afford to do. And some might argue that Shameless, Arrow etc could ask for advice on a title before acquiring it isn't all that reliable either. Arrow were cautioned that Island of Death would categorically not get through the BBFC uncut, and I believe Marc Morris's and Jake West's label Nucleus passed on it for this reason. So it was surprising to everyone when it was passed fully uncut. So it's not always clear cut and not always black and white.

How can they still cut films? It's art, and are to be touched by no one else than the creator... ****in' BBFC...

Cuts or no cuts, I've enjoyed every one of Shameless's fine releases thus far and haven't at any point felt short changed. Maybe I'm not that clued up or educated in the ways of the true movie critic or the so called life long film buff but I like to think I have a good grasp on the whole Shameless/Arrow ethos and haven't lived the past 34 years in a cave laughing at my own farts. Without wishing to be a bitch I'm more likely to laugh at those who spend hard earned cash buying multiple versions of the same film in the hope of owning some 'Holy Grail' when a company like Shameless are right on my doorstep. Ultimatly though, happy viewing, whatever and however you decide to shop for your horror/giallo etc etc :)

A lil late for a response to that - but I have to say that this DOES matter. Even though Shameless has gone through the effort of searching new material, the film is not intact in the sense Fulci wanted it to be. I find it despicable to censor movies and I hope that the BBFC will drop their medieval attitude towards certain things in the next couple of years.

I'd like to get a list of the new scenes (3 min + 15 sec) - coz to be honest: I can disclaim 15 seconds of "someone getting out of a car" when one of the key scenes from the movie has been trimmed to not upset the elderly.

P.S.: It was a tough decision to even get the Shameless DVD to complete my collection - but since it was cheap and since I have other, intact, versions of the film as well I did buy it. I'll definitely skip the Blu for now - maybe there will be a VERY good price at Amazon someday that I cannot refuse but getting movies in the way/version they were intended to be and not in the way some guy I don't give a crap about thinks I should see it.

I've posted more details about the additional footage in this thread. Shameless are not going to give full details of all the scenes or there'd be no surprises left for the actual release!

It's completely up to you whether you buy it or not. Shameless can't help the BBFC's decision and did try everything they could to get the film passed uncut. Unfortunately, it wasn't to be.

After paying out to licence a new HD master, Shameless could hardly be expected to just drop the release because they couldn't release it uncut so, instead have gone to great lengths to make sure this is still a release worth owning. They understand some people may not want to purchase a cut copy of the film but, since New York Ripper was their second biggest seller on DVD (cut) then they saw it as an excellent choice of title to be their first Blu-ray.

I don't like surprises ;)

I am completely with you on Shameless' side of the release. I also hate the BBFC for the decision, not you. I know that the movie business is a tough one and you sometimes just have to cut a few leafs to make a salad. :D

P.S.: Currenty, when a movie is being released in a censored version in Germany, the labels very often release uncut German versions in Austria, since we don't have that kind of movie censorship. Have you ever thought abour releasing an uncut edition of the film to Ireland, Scotland ... or somewhere else the BBFC has no say?

The BBFC still have a say in Scotland and Wales - not just England. And I think Ireland are actually more strict from what I've heard so it's not really an option for Shameless unfortunately!

What about online sales only for an uncut release ?

Or would production costs be a problem having two different prints,plus if the uncut one ended up in shops by mistake that could be costly

Just a thought

Well according to dvd&bluray world Ireland is more strict -the I Spit On Your Grave (1978) rerelease has apparently been banned while the UK gets a version cut by 2 min 54 secs.

The Netherlands or Belgium wouldn't censor it... ;)
And it would get a 16 certificate over here.

Didn't Redemption and Vipco take that route once?

If only Scotland had their own censors! But then we'd have 9 ratings logos on a dvd and blu-ray cover, so maybe not. :lol:

I dnt think a online uncut release would be viable. No UK company currently offers paid for downloads as it has not taken off here yet. US has been doing it for a year now.

I'm not sure how legal the practice would be in operation now as I imagine it would count as a breach of contract when it came to territorial rights, unless the licensor agreed to it. Then again, I could be completely wrong. :)

Which indeed it did. I found a copy of the Japan Shock release when I lived there many years ago. 16 it is!

Hey guys, I've been meaning to apologise for this post. This is a prime example of what happens when skankenstoned becomes plain ol' skanken'! (All work and no spliff makes me babble crap). I realise that on this forum I'm in the presence of some serious collectors and if my priorities were different I'd be exactly the same. This apologie is brought to you by the fact that I'm slowly but surely leaning to the idea of purchasing Fulci's Box Of Terror and will for sure be getting the fan edition of NYR. Hope I didn't offend anyone :pray:

I suppose I'm one of those who buys multiple copies of the same film (such as The Exorcist six times), for such trivial reasons as different artwork, but I wasn't offended. Thanks for the apology anyway.