The Beyond –The Technical Debate

[Steel76]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I did not think the DNR in the Beyond was that bad - if anyone wants to see some seriously bad-looking DNR, check out the screencaps for Dementia 13, and The Terror.

Sure, it´s not THAT bad, BUT the point is, there shouldn´t be ANY DNR at all on a Blu-Ray. A small amount of DNR could be useful for DVD because the lower bitrate on DVD can´t handle heavy filmgrain that well. But a Blu-Ray has bitrate high enough to handle really heavy grain without breaking into a blocky mess.

Even a small dose of DNR robs the picture of the sharpness and finedetails that we want from a high definition picture, which is the reason why we upgraded to BD.

Arrow REALLY needs to listen to us and STOP using DNR in the future.

I truly hope the coming "Funhouse" BD is DNR free.

And don´t even DARE to use EE (Edge Enhancement) to cover up a DNR job by trying to make it "sharper" again

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Steel76

Sure, it´s not THAT bad, BUT the point is, there shouldn´t be ANY DNR at all on a Blu-Ray. A small amount of DNR could be useful for DVD because the lower bitrate on DVD can´t handle heavy filmgrain that well. But a Blu-Ray has bitrate high enough to handle really heavy grain without breaking into a blocky mess.

Even a small dose of DNR robs the picture of the sharpness and finedetails that we want from a high definition picture, which is the reason why we upgraded to BD.

Arrow REALLY needs to listen to us and STOP using DNR in the future.

I truly hope the coming "Funhouse" BD is DNR free.

And don´t even DARE to use EE (Edge Enhancement) to cover up a DNR job by trying to make it "sharper" again

Well that rather depends on the purpose of DNR for the release at hand. If it's there for restoration purposes like to clean up print damage and scratches, then I don't think it's such a bad tool (sorry but I cannot abide flecks of print damage - it may be authentic, but it's horrendous and distracting to watch, and I'd prefer DNR on that occasion). But if it's used solely for the destruction of film a la Predator or those releases that I mentioned, then no it cannot be supported.

But I think to say that there should be no DNR at all is wrong - I suspect many of the older films would look in rougher shape if it had not been used.

[bizarre_eye@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I did not think the DNR in the Beyond was that bad - if anyone wants to see some seriously bad-looking DNR, check out the screencaps for Dementia 13, and The Terror.

I'm glad you mentioned Dementia 13, as I was seriously considering picking this one up on Blu. I certainly have reservations about doing so now you've mentioned it, and I've seen some of the screen caps...

[TJ Doc]

New comparison between the discs up at Caps-a-holic.

Going on those images alone, DNR does not look like much of an issue. Contrast levels look great too.

[L'enfant Errant]

The slightly-crushed blacks are certainly an improvement over the notably-elevated blacks. I wouldn't be surprised if they could have manipulated the gamma values just a bit more to lose less shadow detail and still get those solid dark areas - but hey, that's basically how the DP approved Grindhouse Releasing DVD handled shadow detail, too.

The release still looks a odd, though. It's not DVNR, as there's still quite a bit of grain left intact, so I can only assume what I'm seeing is a side-effect from a different temporal process. Maybe film stabilization or scratch removal (and it may well have been on Rome's end, not Arrows).

Caps-A-Holic's 4th shot is the best example; there's a lot of something in the sky, but it doesn't look anything like the sharp, random grain you find on other Arrow and Blue Underground Techniscope films. At first I thought it just might be poor compression, but the new release has more than double the bitrate, and that odd underlying texture - though better resolved - is still just as irregular as it was before.

Arrow did the right thing with this corrected BD50 version though, and now that I can see what they've done, I'm very much looking forward to having it.

[LoBo]

That is called image noise. For more information, look here: Image noise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[L'enfant Errant]

I know it's video noise; the real question is what's it doing there, and where did it come from?

Some form of temporal processing mucked up the original grain structure into the sort of blotchy layer of noise we see on both transfers, and I'm curious exactly how it changed from a layer of 35mm Techniscope to... well, what we have on Blu-ray.

Again, it's entirely possible that Rome did all the temporal processing before Arrow even got the materials. I just wish I could put my finger on what the heck that processing was.

[TheGlynreaper]

my blu ray edition of the beyond has the monochrome opening but in my opinion it makes it a little bit better
as since the opening sequence is a flashback being black and white gives it the retro look and when the blind girl begins to speak the screen turns colour as the credits appear

[vinncent]

Originally Posted by TheGlynreaper

my blu ray edition of the beyond has the monochrome opening but in my opinion it makes it a little bit better
as since the opening sequence is a flashback being black and white gives it the retro look and when the blind girl begins to speak the screen turns colour as the credits appear

Yeah..but its not just the begining of the movie that is different! The corrected version has better quality all around with a much higher bitrate!

[Daemonia]

Originally Posted by TheGlynreaper

my blu ray edition of the beyond has the monochrome opening but in my opinion it makes it a little bit better
as since the opening sequence is a flashback being black and white gives it the retro look and when the blind girl begins to speak the screen turns colour as the credits appear

Yes, but it's not the original look of the film and not what Fulci and co had in mind. Personally, I think black and white totally destroys the opening of the film, as it's meant to be sepia/golden-yellow, like a 'faded photograph', to quote the cinematographer.

But, I can appreciate that, to you, it might be preferable. But I'd rather have it as the filmmakers intended. And, as has been pointed out, the transfer as a whole is better on the corrected disc. But if you'd rather settle for an inferior transfer, that's entirely up to you. Thing is, you can get a corrected disc AND keep the one with the monochrome opening, so you're not losing out.