The Beyond –The Technical Debate

[springjack]

Originally Posted by L'enfant Errant

Wha?!? You mean everyone on the planet doesn't A/B test encoders with different stress-test clips, just to see the resutls?

But I figured, well, why not mention it? We're in the "Technical" discussion, right?

You understood me wrong.
When I said the a lot of people are not into the technical stuff, I meant that they don´t have knowledge about technical stuff. For instance, a friend of mine always makes comparison screens between the different editions in his collection but he doesn´t know what DNR, EE, etc. means. He just looks at the screens and, like everyone else, knows what´s the best image in his sense of judgement.

And like him, many of the folks that are into DVD/Blu-Ray know with what they are pleased but don´t understand about the different technical stuff.

Originally Posted by L'enfant Errant

It sure isn't bad, though compared to Suspiria or nearly any of the transfers Anchor Bay followed it with, it feels far more gritty - there's flicker, scratches, speckles and bobble out the wazoo on the Grindhouse transfer of The Beyond, and I was never sure if that was because the materials were in worse shape or because it wasn't given the same level of processing as its contemporaries (or some combination thereof).

From the final product, and from what I´ve been reading over the years, I believe "The Beyond" had the worst materials to work with. We all know that Anchor Bay was in the top of the game in the beginning of last decade. They were usually great when it comes to the audio and video department. Yes, there were botched releases like Zombie, the very first Halloween, the 1.0 release of Opera was badly authored) but in all, Anchor Bay ruled the horror comunity. The why I said before that Arrow is the Anchor Bay and beyond of this decade.

Originally Posted by L'enfant Errant

Grindhouse is a really dedicated studio, and I always love seeing how much care they put into their titles... too bad their Cannibal Holocaust transfer was way beneath their usual standard.

My main issue with Grindhouse is their Cannibal Ferox not being 16:9.
C´mon, even with the re-issue they still released that movie in 4:3...

Originally Posted by L'enfant Errant

Agreed!

I just figured The Evil Dead (or Alien, or Dawn of the Dead, or Halloween, or half a dozen other great films I could think of...) would be a decent way to remind people that just because we have an "approved" transfer made 10, 15 or 20 years ago doesn't mean the transfer can't still be improved upon.

Salvati's the final word on The Beyond, but he hasn't had a chance to say anything in 11 years. As such I don't doubt that the Italian materials were a bit wonky, but I'm also not yet willing to say "The film has to look like the Grindhouse transfer, or it's WRONG!!", either.

Let´s hope Arrow can give us a straight answer if they can get one.

Until now, no word has come out and the release date is very near.
If the restoration was indeed wrongly done, I guess they´ll have to push back the release date again (for me is great since my orders next month are goint to burst my savings).

I have the Star Wars Blu-Ray pre-ordered since day 1 but I´m so very afraid about the choices Mr. Lucas is going to make.

[Daemonia]

Originally Posted by springjack

My main issue with Grindhouse is their Cannibal Holocaust not being 16:9.
C´mon, even with the re-issue they still released that movie in 4:3...

Huh? The Grindhouse Cannibal Holocaust is most certainly 16:9 and looks terrific, the best I've ever seen the movie. I think you're confused and what you really mean is Cannibal Ferox, which was a letterboxed 4:3 transfer. The main reason for that being that the DVD transfer was a direct port of the master prepared for the LaserDisc release. Similarly, Anchor Bay/Grindhouse's The Beyond was a film that was originally preapred for LaserDisc, but the LD never actually materialised and they simply skipped the LD release and put it out on DVD. It's curious as to how Anchor Bay got involved, basically DVD distribution rights were held by Rolling Thunder in conjunction with Grindhouse. Now, Rolling Thunder is a subsidiary of Disney and they said 'No way is a nasty film like The Beyond ever going to sit in our roster of films' and Anchor Bay were given distribution rights, so that Disney/Rolling Thunder wouldn't have to actually handle the title and it wouldn't appear in their catalogue.

Anyway, no offence guys, you can be technical all you like, but if you can't even get the names of the films right it's all a bit pointless.

[springjack]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

Huh? The Grindhouse Cannibal Holocaust is most certainly 16:9 and looks terrific, the best I've ever seen the movie. I think you're confused and what you really mean is Cannibal Ferox, which was a letterboxed 4:3 transfer. The main reason for that being that the DVD transfer was a direct port of the master prepared for the LaserDisc release. Similarly, Anchor Bay/Grindhouse's The Beyond was a film that was originally preapred for LaserDisc, but the LD never actually materialised and they simply skipped the LD release and put it out on DVD. It's curious as to how Anchor Bay got involved, basically DVD distribution rights were held by Rolling Thunder in conjunction with Grindhouse. Now, Rolling Thunder is a subsidiary of Disney and they said 'No way is a nasty film like The Beyond ever going to sit in our roster of films' and Anchor Bay were given distribution rights, so that Disney/Rolling Thunder wouldn't have to actually handle the title and it wouldn't appear in their catalogue.

Anyway, no offence guys, you can be technical all you like, but if you can't even get the names of the films right it's all a bit pointless.

Sorry, my bad.
I meant Cannibal Ferox.

I copy/paste the sentence and forgot to change the movie.

[Daemonia]

No worries. Just thought I'd better point it out before anyone mistakenly thought the Grindhouse Cannibal Holocaust was non-anamorphic.

But, really, if you're going to be technical, then that involves being precise. And your first port of call in being precise is to actually get the name of the film right. Sorry to be a pedant on this, but before you begin trying to sound all knowledgeable on technical issues, then you shouldn't really fall at the first hurdle.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

Huh? The Grindhouse Cannibal Holocaust is most certainly 16:9 and looks terrific, the best I've ever seen the movie. I think you're confused and what you really mean is Cannibal Ferox, which was a letterboxed 4:3 transfer. The main reason for that being that the DVD transfer was a direct port of the master prepared for the LaserDisc release. Similarly, Anchor Bay/Grindhouse's The Beyond was a film that was originally preapred for LaserDisc, but the LD never actually materialised and they simply skipped the LD release and put it out on DVD. It's curious as to how Anchor Bay got involved, basically DVD distribution rights were held by Rolling Thunder in conjunction with Grindhouse. Now, Rolling Thunder is a subsidiary of Disney and they said 'No way is a nasty film like The Beyond ever going to sit in our roster of films' and Anchor Bay were given distribution rights, so that Disney/Rolling Thunder wouldn't have to actually handle the title and it wouldn't appear in their catalogue.

Anyway, no offence guys, you can be technical all you like, but if you can't even get the names of the films right it's all a bit pointless.

IMO EC's ultrabit transfer of CH is better than the Grindhouse edition.


Sorry, back to The Beyond...

[Pete]

Originally Posted by dvdrenato

Yes, there actually was a VHS tape from Vipco in the 90's. There are like 4 different colour versions of that sequence, a few examples...

- Full Colour: German theatrical and 80's to mid-90's VHS releases
- Sepia: Dutch VHS release, US-DVDs (Grindhouse/AB) and releases based on their Master
- Yellow: Italian and Scandinavian DVD releases (both rather "dirty yellow" looking picture, not really the wanted "golden" look)
- B&W: the mentioned Vipco VHS release

So, *if* that test-disc had the pre title sequence in B&W, it would not be the first time a UK company tried that.

I would of course also prefer the original "golden" look (but a nicer, cleaner Yellow than on the Italian and AWE DVDs).

Also what somehow ruined the previous DVD releases in most (if not all) other countries, was the cropped picture. The sides often didn't contain the complete picture information, and especially a *lot* was cropped from the bottom of the picture. I have my hopes for a much more complete picture and framing on the Arrow release.

A few European DVDs I checked also were missing the very first seconds from the beginning, talking about the "HOTEL" sign first shot. It's no big deal, but complete is better.

Any chance that Arrow & Co. come up with some previously totally-unknown and/or Deleted Scenes, that someone has found at his houses attic?

I have that Vipco tape and from what I can remember the opening was not in b&w. Been ages since I saw it though, so I could be wrong.

Like you say a few of the euro releases (EC, Vipco) are missing a brief shot at the begining.

[L'enfant Errant]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

Anyway, no offence guys, you can be technical all you like, but if you can't even get the names of the films right it's all a bit pointless.

None taken. I meant Holocaust, not Ferox.

I can forgive Cannibal Ferox for being 4:3, considering how old the master was - upscaling it wouldn't have increased the quality, and it's hard to blame them not wanting to do another scan of the negative. The Sazuma transfer isn't really much better either, despite being 16:9.

Unfortunately the compression on Cannibal Holocaust is just... bad. Lots of pixelation and video noise which could have easily been avoided with a higher bitrate and/or a progressive transfer. The print they used is fine, but the way they presented it on DVD is another story entirely.


...but yeah, back to that "The Beyond" flick...

[dvdrenato]

Originally Posted by Pete

I have that Vipco tape and from what I can remember the opening was not in b&w. Been ages since I saw it though, so I could be wrong.(...)

Could be a different edition maybe, Vipco used to release several versions of the more popular films. The tape including the pre title sequence in B&W was from the "Strong Uncut" series and "presented" the film in Fullscreen.

[Nosferatu@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by Jonny

And don't forget Nosferatu was originally tinted with different colours.

Originally Posted by Paul@Lovelockandload

Was that before or after he became a mod on Cult Labs?

I'm quite happy with my current colour scheme, which wasn't altered by my moderator status, thank you very much!

As for the film Nosferatu, I have both Eureka DVD releases (the original and Masters of Cinema) and like it with colour tints and in monochrome.

Now, back to The Beyond...

[tollickd]

2 Weeks until release!