SHAM031/SHAM201 - Cannibal Holocaust: The Archive Discussion

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

It's the best we can hope for in the UK, but it sounds far from perfect to me - but I do applaud Shameless for being innovative and getting Deodato to supervise a BBFC-friendly edit of the film (although I hope this version isn't a case of re-writing history and trying to displace the original vision with this revision).

Whether you watch the film with or without the animal cruelty, the fact still remains that animals were killed in the course of making this film. If you object that strongly you should shun the film completely. Just because you're watching it sans animal cruelty, the animal cruelty footage still exists and is a part of the film. You can remove all the unpalatable stuff you like, it still doesn't alter the methods employed in making the film. I really dislike the way people embrace the film once the censor makes it more palatable for them.

Let me put it this way, if someone actually filmed the real abuse of a child and included it in their film, would you want anything to do with that film, even if the scene was taken out? Fact is, the director still filmed it, so one's first reaction is to shun it completely.

It's also interesting that Kerman, in interviews on the Grindhouse release, really shows his distaste for the animal stuff in CH. But, I do wonder that if he objected that strongly why he then went on to make not one but two further Italian cannibal epics, both for Lenzi. You'd think that after CH being offered a part in Cannibal Ferox might've been a giveaway that it was going to be similar in tone to CH. Well...I would, anyway...

all good and fair points that i wont argue against, i mean if i really cared i'd be a vegan right? but still in my purely selfish and hypocritical way i really don't like to watch extended animal torture in a horror film, to me it adds nothing to the film, infact it takes me out of the film completely, if i wanted to see that kind of thing i'd watch a mondo documentary or something to that effect, i feel it doesn't have any place in an otherwise fantasy film, just the cheapest and sleaziest of gimmicks.
you used the example of a human child and i have to say it's one of the reasons i despise the men behind the sun and its director, there was no need at all to slice up the real cadaver of a human child purely for a more shocking live autopsy scene, to me if you cant get your point across without resorting to such things then your point probably isn't worth making. and i probably will never watch that film again purely for this reason.
and like i said, i have pretty much boycotted cannibal films for years because i find the animal scenes so gratuitous and repulsive but if deodato regrets it enough to attempt a new edit then this to me sounds great. bottom line is they'll always be uncut editions of cannibal holocaust released somewhere in the world, so i don't see the problem in hypocrites like myself enjoying a new version, even if we can't soundly back up our reasoning.

[Daemonia]

Originally Posted by bigandya

Does this mean that from now on this will be the only version of Cannibal Holocaust to receive worldwide release?

Will we never see a Blu Ray version of the fully uncut film available in another territory?

It was stated earlier in the thread that an HD master of the uncut version would be prepared first and then Deodato would prepare a new edit for Shameless here in the UK. So I presume that someone is paying for an HD restoration of the uncut version, so hopefully that will surface on BD, uncut, somewhere on the continent. I just hope that this revisionist version isn't seen as a way of displacing the original version.

[Daemonia]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

all good and fair points that i wont argue against, i mean if i really cared i'd be a vegan right? but still in my purely selfish and hypocritical way i really don't like to watch extended animal torture in a horror film, to me it adds nothing to the film, infact it takes me out of the film completely, if i wanted to see that kind of thing i'd watch a mondo documentary or something to that effect, i feel it doesn't have any place in an otherwise fantasy film, just the cheapest and sleaziest of gimmicks.
you used the example of a human child and i have to say it's one of the reasons i despise the men behind the sun and its director, there was no need at all to slice up the real cadaver of a human child purely for a more shocking live autopsy scene, to me if you cant get your point across without resorting to such things then your point probably isn't worth making. and i probably will never watch that film again purely for this reason.
and like i said, i have pretty much boycotted cannibal films for years because i find the animal scenes so gratuitous and repulsive but if deodato regrets it enough to attempt a new edit then this to me sounds great. bottom line is they'll always be uncut editions of cannibal holocaust released somewhere in the world, so i don't see the problem in hypocrites like myself enjoying a new version, even if we can't soundly back up our reasoning.

Hey, I'm not against people having this option, I'm just saying that don't think that suddenly the animal scenes never happened. Also, in buying the film, in any version, you are, in effect, donating money towards something that caused the death of those animals. But yeah, at the end of the day, we're all hypocrites to some degree. I mean, we all use household items that are damaging to the environment, drive cars that give out toxic fumes etc.

[bigandya]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

It was stated earlier in the thread that an HD master of the uncut would be prepared first and then Deodato would prepare a new edit for Shameless here in the UK. So I presume that someone is paying for an HD restoration of the uncut version, so hopefully that will surface on BD, uncut, somewhere on the continent. I just hope that this revisionist version isn't seen as a way of displacing the original version.

That was always my fear, that Deodato was preparing a "new" version for the world, to make amends for past sins.

Counter to that the sceptic inside me saw this as Deodato preparing a "new" version to cater for the BBFC, rather than for any other reason.

If this "new" version is released in other territories, on its own merits (as in, not coupled with an uncut version) then I'll accept Deodato believes what he says... otherwise I'm afraid I'll remain sceptical.

[nekromantik]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

It was stated earlier in the thread that an HD master of the uncut version would be prepared first and then Deodato would prepare a new edit for Shameless here in the UK. So I presume that someone is paying for an HD restoration of the uncut version, so hopefully that will surface on BD, uncut, somewhere on the continent. I just hope that this revisionist version isn't seen as a way of displacing the original version.

yup thats what I said in more detail

and about being hypocrites, I myself am a vegi and I hate the animal scenes but I never forgot that they were made when I watch the animal free version. I mainly watch it so I dont have to gag and watch the animal stuff. Yes thats kinda hypocritical but I cant hate the film and not watch it as its a very important piece of movie history.

Originally Posted by bigandya

That was always my fear, that Deodato was preparing a "new" version for the world, to make amends for past sins.

Counter to that the sceptic inside me saw this as Deodato preparing a "new" version to cater for the BBFC, rather than for any other reason.

If this "new" version is released in other territories, on its own merits (as in, not coupled with an uncut version) then I'll accept Deodato believes what he says... otherwise I'm afraid I'll remain sceptical.

I very much doubt the new version is him making amends as he cant honestly think that doing that will change anything. This is a UK edit and its obviously going to be to cater for the BBFC so we get to see a "better" version of the film minus the stuff that they dont like instead of a badly cut original version.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

Hey, I'm not against people having this option, I'm just saying that don't think that suddenly the animal scenes never happened. Also, in buying the film, in any version, you are, in effect, donating money towards something that caused the death of those animals. But yeah, at the end of the day, we're all hypocrites to some degree. I mean, we all use household items that are damaging to the environment, drive cars that give out toxic fumes etc.

exactly. but when i eat a sausage sandwich should i intensely muse on pig slaughtering techniques while i chew? fingers in the ears and lalalalala, thats me.
speaking of pigs, i just watched godard's interminable film 'weekend', funny how the bbfc are ok with the brutal slaughter of a pig in this film, to me it was just a cheap way to get his point across. it's like stabbing someone to death and filming it and saying "see?? murder is BAD!"
i mean, i get it, this stuff happens everyday and i'm fully prepared to face up to and accept this fact of just how much suffering i am responsible for every single day, but there is a time and a place and horror films are escapism for me.
anyway, bottom line is i'm very curious to see how this new edit will turn out.

[bigandya]

Originally Posted by nekromantik

I very much doubt the new version is him making amends as he cant honestly think that doing that will change anything. This is a UK edit and its obviously going to be to cater for the BBFC so we get to see a "better" version of the film minus the stuff that they dont like instead of a badly cut original version.

I've never actually seen any of the re-released versions which have the animal cruelty cut, as well as much of the sexualised violence.

Apart from the HD transfer, is the intention to restore much of what the BBFC originally cut in the way of sexual violence? Has anyone at the BBFC been consulted about the likelihood of this yet as obviously the production of an HD transfer is not without cost, and I'm sure Shameless would not want this to prove an expensive, but ultimately futile, gamble.

As we've seen with ISOYG and NYR, its the sexualised violence to women that the BBFC dont like, and CH is full of that.

[nekromantik]

Originally Posted by bigandya

I've never actually seen any of the re-released versions which have the animal cruelty cut, as well as much of the sexualised violence.

Apart from the HD transfer, is the intention to restore much of what the BBFC originally cut in the way of sexual violence? Has anyone at the BBFC been consulted about the likelihood of this yet as obviously the production of an HD transfer is not without cost, and I'm sure Shameless would not want this to prove an expensive, but ultimately futile, gamble.

As we've seen with ISOYG and NYR, its the sexualised violence to women that the BBFC dont like, and CH is full of that.

It sounds like the HD master is a joint venture so not just Shameless are paying for it. The re-edit is for shameless only then the uncut master can be used by other company to release a blu if they so wished.

The US and Aussy release has 2 versions, uncut and animal free. Animal free still contains the sexual violence.

[bigandya]

Originally Posted by nekromantik

It sounds like the HD master is a joint venture so not just Shameless are paying for it. The re-edit is for shameless only then the uncut master can be used by other company to release a blu if they so wished.

The US and Aussy release has 2 versions, uncut and animal free. Animal free still contains the sexual violence.

Thats amazing then - I really thought the forced abortion sequence, the rape with the spiked dildo, the rape of the Indio girl, and the "spear from a-hole to mouth" girl would all be potential victims of the BBFC rule on sexualised violence against women.

The fact this animal cruelty free version will still contain all these sequences muct be seen as a real feather in the cap for Shameless.

[nekromantik]

Originally Posted by bigandya

Thats amazing then - I really thought the forced abortion sequence, the rape with the spiked dildo, the rape of the Indio girl, and the "spear from a-hole to mouth" girl would all be potential victims of the BBFC rule on sexualised violence against women.

The fact this animal cruelty free version will still contain all these sequences muct be seen as a real feather in the cap for Shameless.

oh no Im not saying the Shameless edit will contain these scenes im saying the HD master is the full uncut version with animal cruelty and then Deadato will go and create his re-edit for Shameless which might or might not loose the sexual violence.