Censorship

[SimonT]

Originally Posted by Peter Neal

They're determined to protect Germany's youth (and in the process often also Germany's adults) from movies and other media THEY deem to be in conflict with "human dignity"/"glorifying violence" etc...

Seems quite daft when all they have to do is look to their Dutch neighbours, who have the most liberal censorship guidelines, and see that exposure to such media hasn't harmed them.

Plus, in this day and age where you can download virtually any film or song that you want with a few clicks of the mouse, how exactly do they expect to control what people are seeing?

It really does beg the question, do censors live on the same planet?

[Peter Neal]

As long as there's not a general European solution for the issue, not a thing will change regarding Germany's very own idea of "youth protection"
And yes, they DO seem to live on another planet, as they were also attempting to introduce the very same ratings, restrictions and guidelines for the general use of the internet in Germany- Don't ask me how they deem such an "enterprise" even possible to pull off in a Western country

[SimonT]

Bout time someone mounted a legal challenge under European Human rights laws that are supposed to guarantee freedom of expression.

[Peter Neal]

If the German media distributors united to bring the current model of "youth protection" to an end, things might look more rosy for German fans.
Unfortunately though the big studios don't seem too interested to "dirty" their clean-cut image with a fight for "violent movies" and the small players simply don't have the bread to finance a legal appeal which would really make a difference.
After the banning of "Hostel Part II" Sony were supposedly considering to go to court over the issue, but nothing ever happened- probably not surprising considering the regular hate campaigns against "killer games" and "violent videos" in the German tabloid press and by certain politicians.
The label "Turbine" have been trying their best for over a year now to free the original "TCM" from the list of banned movies, but apparently a film seems to be banned forever over there when it lands on the list with no legal "escape gate" in sight.
That's why releases of the likes of Fulci's "The Beyond" or the original "Dawn of the Dead" will get banned in Germany over and over again until something groundbreaking happens...
As you can probably guess, you couldn't do business like "Shameless" or "Arrow" in Germany, as most of their catalogue would instantly make the "Index's" "A" and "B" list (...and some titles most likely WILL as the BPJM has their eye on "imports" every now and then....).

[Nosferatu@Cult Labs]

The German position nonsense as it just strikes me as barmy.
Has it stopped youth crime? No.
Did Adolf Hitler watch a lot of violent movies when he was an Austrian schoolboy? No.
Is there still a violent neo-Nazi movement? Yes.
Would releasing The Texas Chain Saw Massacre make a difference to crime levels? No.

[SimonT]

Originally Posted by Peter Neal

If the German media distributors united to bring the current model of "youth protection" to an end, things might look more rosy for German fans.
Unfortunately though the big studios don't seem too interested to "dirty" their clean-cut image with a fight for "violent movies" and the small players simply don't have the bread to finance a legal appeal which would really make a difference.

And I thought we had things bad in the UK.

What I find interesting though is many of the films banned in Germany can be freely picked up next door in neighbouring Austria.

[Concertina]

Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs

The German position nonsense as it just strikes me as barmy.
Has it stopped youth crime? No.
Did Adolf Hitler watch a lot of violent movies when he was an Austrian schoolboy? No.
Is there still a violent neo-Nazi movement? Yes.
Would releasing The Texas Chain Saw Massacre make a difference to crime levels? No.

It's unfortunately the same argument in all forms of media. I sell video games for a living and I see it every day. On the one hand we have parents who buy their kids the most violent things imaginable as long as there is no hint of sex in it (god forbid there be nudity to smut up their dismemberment!! *gasp*)...and on the other I have young kids flipping out on me because I have to ask for ID. None of it makes a bit of difference...as you said. Hitler was a vegetairian as well as a pastoral painter. Look how much good that did the world.



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[Peter Neal]

@ SimonT: Yes, that's very fortunate for the German fans- though I wouldn't count on that "gap" staying open forever- and with potential German imports being made impossible one (hopefully still far away!) day I'm not too sure if the current Austrian "uncut labels" (and shops) will be able to carry on...but luckily that's just the pessimist in me talking- for now!

@ Nosferatu@Cult Labs: Of course those meassures don't really make any detectable difference, but they do continue to give the usual do-gooders and politicians a stage to keep on pretending that they actually "DO" something for the "good" of society and- yes indeed- the children and young adults, with the latter more likely to be worrying about their chances of getting a decent job one day, but anyhow...
It's really sad as the German law's particular focus on preserving the "human dignity" has led to its (over/mis-)use in the hands of overly concerned interest groups and government bodies to go after all kinds of potentially "depraving & corrupting" content in the name of "youth protection".
Imho, given its historical responsibility after two desastrous dictatorships in the last century, it should so much rather be a front-runner for "freedom of art" instead.

[bdc]

I was wondering...how come films like Liane,das Mädchen aus dem Urwald (1956) got released uncensored way back in Germany?
It has lots of nudity and seems it got a 16 certificate (the dvd is "12" according to Amazon)?
Seems the censors didn't mind nudity?
However I noticed the second Liane film makes an effort in hiding Liane's "charms",was there a need for this?

Just curious...

[Peter Neal]

Well, generally speaking the German "censors" (They don't consider themselves as censors as "censorship" supposedly "doesn't take place" in Germany- at least that's what our constitution says) have always had a bigger problem with violence rather than nudity in movies, which often results in parents opposing the "liberal" ratings of the "FSK" when it comes to "6" or "12"-rated flicks containing healthy doses of sex or dialogues with sexual references.
That "relaxed" attitude stops right at the gate when a distributor wants to get a "strong" horror flick like "Scar 3D" released with an "18"-Cert, which apparently had to let go of 9 (!!!) minutes before being able to get legally shown for German adults in cinemas....Go figure.