The Doctor Who Thread

[Gothmogxx]

On the 25th of December 2017, Twice Upon A Time premiered. It wasn't perfect, especially compared to World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls but for a lot of people, it was the last genuinely good Story of Doctor Who for a long time. Between 2018-2022, The Power of the Doctor was the only one that vaguely resembled anything good (because of past Doctors, Ace, Tegan, The Master, the regeneration scene etc) but the quality of the past was gone. I absolutely hated almost the entirety of the 2018-2022 period and I doubted we were ever going to get good Who again (I thought cancellation was more likely).

On Saturday, RTD brought it back. It wasn't faultless, but that was the best Story I've seen in years.

Tennant was on the ball, Tate likewise. To an extent, It felt like 2008 all over again. There is a bittersweet element to it though, knowing we only have two more Stories with them together

I liked the E.T. aspect of trying to conceal the Meep, which was a memorable alien btw, only to have it turn out that he-eh she- eh- er- yeah I'll get to that, was the villain. The Wrarth Warriors also had a nice design.

UNIT! Proper UNIT involved in shootouts (Chibnall tried to kill them off, he failed)!

But I think if I had one bit I liked the most, it was the bit everybody else already got spoiled before watching it. I had no idea that we were getting a new TARDIS interior, and I saw none of the leaks. Also, having seen the Children in Need special, where the 13th Doctor's TARDIS interior was in the background, I just assumed it was staying the same until Gatwa turned up. But that scene, where 14 and Donna went inside... It was absolutely magical. Seeing him run around there with the beautiful music: it was at that moment I knew we had Doctor Who back. It's the best interior of Nu Who and it might even be my favourite overall.

But everything comes with a price it seems, and in this case as has already been noted above, RTD isn't going to back down on the woke stuff. And by woke, I don't mean Rose. Rose was actually a good character and the idea of tackling something like that is something Doctor Who could have done well. After all, its tackled environmental issues via The Green Death, Nazi's in The Daleks and Genesis of the Daleks, North Sea Oil in Inferno, mindless warfare more times than I can count but standouts being The Silurians and The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion (I mean Capaldi's speech though). But its was all done far more cleverly because regardless of how people feel on the topic, we got towards the end and then...

One single line. One single line from Rose undone just about every part of whatever message RTD tried to sell. That stuff about a male-presenting time lord that would never think about just letting it go because he wouldn't understand? It comes completely out of nowhere: Nobody male-presenting would ever choose to just power go? Its the kind of thing that wouldn't be picked up upon if RTD wasn't trying to present that message, but in the context of this particular Story, it kind of spoiled the rest of RTD's points he was making: especially as the Doctor has been both genders...AND Rose herself picked him up on the use of "his" pronouns earlier, which was the cringiest scene in the whole thing. I just feel Doctor Who can and has done a better job invoking politics into the Stories in the past.

But that said, the rest of it was all good. Inferno would still be a masterpiece even if all 7 episodes had a 20 second scene of any random character complaining about how "the drilling is damaging to the environment, just like the drilling out at sea" or something like that (I mean it would be preachy and annoying but hey). It's not going to spoil things for me overall. I'm glad to see Doctor Who back again after Chibnall almost killed it. There will be episodes and moments like this, and episodes and moments that are very different. Part of the beauty of the show.

8/10.

Next week is supposed to be terrifying. Return of the Weeping Angels? Whatever it is, I'm actually, for the first time in years, looking forward to it!

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Excellent post, Gothmogxx.

Can you imagine the outrage if a male character had said to a female "You're a woman, you wouldn't understand" like was said to the Doctor.

I'm looking forward to this weeks episode. Nothing whatsoever is known about it which is good.

[nosferatu42]

This is my take...

Spoilers +

I thought the overall story and the return of both Donna and the Doctor was handled really well, it seemed like a RTD story.

i was fine with all the woke points because RTD has always been pushing his vibe, to me it's all about acceptance, i'm fine with that.

Rose to be honest i didn't realise was transgender or different until the point was made.

The non binary/ binary element fit perfectly with the Donna regeneration and explained it well, i thought and why wouldn't Davis pick up on this, it totally works, same with the splitting energies with an offspring.

That's the difference to me RTD has always been inclusive, whereas a lot of the Chibnall stuff felt like, let's do a episode to educate the ignorant.

The only thing i have any kind of problem with is the throwaway comment and the let it go moment.

Just seemed kinda unnecessary.

I just feel that this was a reset, a moment where the point was made that everything is all inclusive, whether you are old or new.
It also seemed simple, but i think that is also part of the lure.
Like Rose, it's simple and draws people in.

I enjoyed it, but it's all about where it goes from here.

[nosferatu42]

I also really liked Meep the Geek or whatever it was.

I'm hoping they do a version of Iron Legion at some point as it was my favourite comic story as a kid.

[nosferatu42]

Also the pronoun moment was kinda to make the point that you are the one and only, an individual, categories are unimportant.

I thought that was good. Like why worry about pronouns just be yourself, screw labels.

I thought that was a positive message in a throwaway line.

[Susan Foreman]

Guest actors appearing in INTO THE DALEK who have previously appeared in the show:

• Jenna Coleman (Clara)
• Ellis George (Courtney Woods)
• Michelle Gomez (Missy)
• Barnaby Edwards (Dalek)
• Nicholas Briggs (Dalek Voice)

Who: Before And After #1333 / Nu-Who #392

Name: Samuel Anderson [1982 - ]
Year(s): 2014
Stories: Into The Dalek / Listen – Last Christmas [11 episodes]
Character(s): Danny Pink

Note(s): Also appeared in an uncredited role as Orson Pink in the episode 'Listen'

• Appeared in the Big Finish Productions 'Twelfth Doctor Chronicles' audio story 'War Wounds'

Provided the Audiobook Readings for:

• The 'Puffin eshort' story 'Lights Out'
• The 'Time Lord Fairy Tales' story 'The Gingerbread Trap'

Before Who:
Films: The History Boys* (2006), Stuck (2007), Highlight (2009), Betsy & Leonard (2012), Fifty Years on Stage (2013)

Television: Doctors [4 episodes, different characters (2003–2011)] / The Afternoon Play: Sons, Daughters And Lovers (2004) / Hex: Pilot – The Story Begins* (2004) / Totally Frank [6 episodes as Jason (2005–2006)] / Gavin & Stacey [3 episodes as Fingers (2007–2009)] / Emmerdale Farm [106 episodes as Ross Kirk (2007–2009)] / Casualty [3 episodes as Kris Kingsley (2012)] / Bedlam: Dare (2012) / Midsomer Murders: Death And The Divas (2013) / The Job Lot (2013) / Death in Paradise: The Early Bird (2014) / Trollied [24 episodes as Daniel (2014–2017)]

After Who:
Films: Je suis daddy (2015), Pleasure Island (2015), The Lady in the Van (2015), Genesis (2018), Sweetheart (2021), Gunpowder Milkshake* (2021), The Football Monologues (2021). Falling Into Place (2023), Embers (2023)

Television: Moving On: Love (2016) / DCI Banks [6 episodes as DC Vince Grady (2016)] / Witless [11 episodes as Patrick (2016–2018)] / Loaded [8 episodes as Leon (2017)] / Father Brown: The Sacrifice of Tantalus (2019) / Plebs: The Wedding (2019) / Another Life* [20 episodes as William (2019–2021)] / Landscapers [4 episodes as DC Paul Wilkie (2021)] / Red Rose [8 episodes as Vinny Mason (2022)] / Mammals [2 episodes as Dan (2022)] / Chemistry of Death [3 episodes as DCI Mackenzie (2023)]

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

The (terrible) cover art of the 2000 Big Finish audio story Shadow of the Scourge, starring Sylvester McCoy as the Doctor and Sophie Aldred as Ace.

[Susan Foreman]

Who: Before And After #1334a / Nu-Who #393a

Name: Zawe Ashton [1984 - ]
Year(s): 2014
Stories: Into The Dalek
Character(s): Journey Blue

Note(s): Away from the Whoniverse, she was cast as Sally Donovan in the original, unaired pilot of 'Sherlock'

Before Who:
Films: Othello (Shakespeare's Globe Theatre) (2008), St Trinian's 2: The Legend of Fritton's Gold (2009), Blitz (2011), Weekender (2011), Dreams of a Life (2011), Lapland (2011)
Television: Game-On: Bad Timing (1995) / The Demon Headmaster [2 episodes as Rebecca (1996)] / The Bill [3 episodes, different characters (2000–2008)]/ In Deep [2 episodes as Jade (2002)] / NCS Manhunt: Collision Course (2002) / Holby City: Crossing The Line (2003) / Mobile [2 episodes as the Eyewitness (2007)] / Casualty: True Lies (2009) / Coming Up: Raising Baby Rio (2009) / Misfits (2010) / Case Histories [9 episodes as Deborah Arnold (2011–2013)] / Fresh Meat* [30 episodes as Violet 'Vod' Nordstrom (2011–2016)] / Psychobitches [2 episodes, different characters (2013–2014)]

After Who:
Films: Nocturnal Animals (2016), Oasis (2017), Greta* (2018), Velvet Buzzsaw (2019), Mr. Malcolm's List (2022), Maryland (2022), The Marvels (2023)

Television: Not Safe for Work [6 episodes as Katherine (2015)] / The Devil You Know: Pilot (2015) / Guerrilla [5 episodes as Omega Christine Moore (2017)] / Wanderlust [5 episodes as Claire Pascal (2018)] / The Handmaid's Tale* [3 episodes as Oona (2021)]

Music Video: Gaika Tavares (2016): Another Hole in Babylon [as Thelma]

Who: Before And After #1334b / Nu-Who #393b

Name: Laura Dos Santos [? - ]
Year(s): 2014
Stories: Into The Dalek
Character(s): Gretchen Carlisle

Before Who:
Films: Innocent Party (1998)
Television: Fingersmith [2 episodes as Agnes (2005)] / The Bill [6 episodes as Carrie Morgan (2005–2006)] / Bad Girls* [3 episodes as Emira Al Jahani (2006)] / Wallander: An Event In Autumn (2012)

After Who:
Films: None
Television: Doctors: The Dark Net (2015) / Holby City: All Fall Down (2016) / Little Boy Blue [4 episodes as Donna Kelly (2017)]

Who: Before And After #1334c / Nu-Who #393c

Name: Bradley Ford [? - ]
Year(s): 2014
Stories: Into The Dalek
Character(s): Fleming

Note(s): Is also credited as Fleming in the closing credits of 'Dark Water', although he does not actually appear in the episode. It is thought that he was in a scene that was cut very late in the editing process

Before Who:
Films: Gulliver's Travels (2010), Candle to Water (2012)
Television: 10 Minute Tales: Deep & Crisp & Even (2009) / Law & Order – UK: Broken (2010) / Mr. Sloane [4 episodes as Kevin (2014)]

After Who:
Films: None
Television: None

[Susan Foreman]

Apparently this years Christmas special, 'The Church on Ruby Road', is due to be broadcast on BBC1 at 6pm (following the terrestrial premiere of 'Toy Story 4')!

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

A Cyberman from Tomb of the Cybermen (1967)