SHAM034 - House on the Edge of the Park: The Archive Conversation

[BAKA]

Apologies for returning to this, but it appears some points were misinterpreted.

Originally Posted by platostotal

Personally I don't see the point of poorly sourced masters getting stamped onto Blu. We have had apalling sd dvds in the past, so by all means lets have pristine 1080p goodness, but not on some vhs sourced sub-standard flick (at Blu-Ray prices of course).

No one is asking for this though, are they? If you read from the very start where we were asking if a blu-ray release was possible, I asked if the masters were up to it, or if it was a decision based on cost. One would hope Shameless wouldn't even entertain the option if the masters weren't good enough.

However, Deodato's Cannibal is being released on Blu-ray, and one would assume, looking at Cannibals budget, the fact House was made after, and the fact Deodato has said financing was easier for House, that there is certainly more potential of a better master being available. Of course, that is entirely theoretical.

Originally Posted by platostotal

Blu-Ray is not not mystical magic after all, just higher def.

Of course not, no one is claiming it is. It is however, the closest we have to the actual source itself. Which can have its negatives, but providing a good quality master, and transfer, its positives far outreach them.

It's entirely someone’s prerogative to see a film the way they want to see a film. Personally, I will never comprehend someone only wishing for something in SD. If you only want SD, you will never want to see this in the Cinema? It's crazy to me. But each to their own. I'm personally hoping for some kind of cinematic event from Shameless closer to release for this. Hint, Hint.

I'll also avoid returning to this topic in fear of it detracting from the actual release. But I will, if this is permissible, create a new topic/poll, perhaps after Cannibals HD release (Shameless will have a better idea of expectations for blu-ray releases), looking to drum up support and opinions on a blu-ray release, if that's okay, Sarah? As Nos said, I believe if the movie does pass uncut, and Shameless did decide to release a blu-ray, it would be a real coup. I'm sure I could drum up support from fans around various genre forums, and places like AVForums, which could hopefully be an indication to support, similar to what Arrow did prior to The Beyond's release.

[platostotal]

Originally Posted by BAKA

Apologies for returning to this, but it appears some points were misinterpreted.



No one is asking for this though, are they? If you read from the very start where we were asking if a blu-ray release was possible, I asked if the masters were up to it, or if it was a decision based on cost. One would hope Shameless wouldn't even entertain the option if the masters weren't good enough.

However, Deodato's Cannibal is being released on Blu-ray, and one would assume, looking at Cannibals budget, the fact House was made after, and the fact Deodato has said financing was easier for House, that there is certainly more potential of a better master being available. Of course, that is entirely theoretical.




Of course not, no one is claiming it is. It is however, the closest we have to the actual source itself. Which can have its negatives, but providing a good quality master, and transfer, its positives far outreach them.

It's entirely someone’s prerogative to see a film the way they want to see a film. Personally, I will never comprehend someone only wishing for something in SD. If you only want SD, you will never want to see this in the Cinema? It's crazy to me. But each to their own. I'm personally hoping for some kind of cinematic event from Shameless closer to release for this. Hint, Hint.

I'll also avoid returning to this topic in fear of it detracting from the actual release. But I will, if this is permissible, create a new topic/poll, perhaps after Cannibals HD release (Shameless will have a better idea of expectations for blu-ray releases), looking to drum up support and opinions on a blu-ray release, if that's okay, Sarah? As Nos said, I believe if the movie does pass uncut, and Shameless did decide to release a blu-ray, it would be a real coup. I'm sure I could drum up support from fans around various genre forums, and places like AVForums, which could hopefully be an indication to support, similar to what Arrow did prior to The Beyond's release.

All valid points 'BAKA', I love my Blu-Rays of 'Blade Runner' and 'Planet Earth' vast improvements over SD, but imagine if Vipco or 23rd century brought out Blu-Rays at £28, no thanks. I stand by my point of the source being vital, crappy Blu or sublime dvd... No contest. What I mean is if everybody buys Blu regardless of source quality we can't complain, that's how capitalism works. Wonder how long it will be before punters tire of £28 a disc as well. I shall finish my rant with some well worn words of wisdom. "You can polish a turd all you want, but it's still just a turd". Bring on stunning pin sharp transfers in HD!!!

[robertzombie]

Originally Posted by Prince_Vajda

Yeah - almost 180 seconds missing from UK releases. Here we have a case of a woman accepting the inevitable and nearly abonding herself to Alex. It's a mean scene, as it really looks somewhat civil and non-violent; however, it is rape. It's a difficult scene for the BBFC as Lisa at some point even seems to enjoy her being raped. Nasty indeed.

Greetings!

PS:
No offence - and none taken.

It's debatable as to whether the scene is in fact rape or not. The fact that the BBFC cut it entirely from the VIPCO release implies that they probably think it is rape. I'd imagine the reason for them cutting it is because it could be interpreted as propagating the myth that women enjoy rape.

But let's not forget, the whole point behind all of the protagonists' actions in the film is the fact that they are setting Alex up for a fall. So one could argue that Lisa consents to the sexual encounter for the sake of maintaining the plot against Alex. Thus we enter very difficult territory as to the nature of the scene. To simply say, "it is rape", is ignoring such subtleties of Deodato's piece. It would seem that the whole point of the film is to present the viewer with such impossible questions. Another example being the early humiliation of Ricky, we know he is an antagonist, but should we sympathise with him?

It is my opinion that the sex scene between Alex and Lisa is pivotal to the film, and its removal inexcusable. The scene demonstrates an explicit exchange of control, as Lisa takes over the sexual act. Alex uses sex as a weapon, but is so easily overcome by Lisa, and from that point onwards the film's established female protagonists only get stronger, with Alex having to resort to picking on the child-like Cindy (essentially an outsider), and eventually his friend, Ricky. The scene is not "just rape", it is hugely important to film's depiction of character and shows just how far Lisa will go to aid in defeating Alex.


The EC Entertainment release is far superior in AV quality to the VIPCO release.

[Nosferatu@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by Prince_Vajda

Yeah - almost 180 seconds missing from UK releases. Here we have a case of a woman accepting the inevitable and nearly abonding herself to Alex. It's a mean scene, as it really looks somewhat civil and non-violent; however, it is rape. It's a difficult scene for the BBFC as Lisa at some point even seems to enjoy her being raped. Nasty indeed.

The last time I watched it, I interpreted that seen as a case of Stockholm Syndrome where she had become quite attached to Ricky, hating the way he was treated by Alex and wanting to give him a good 'first time', realising he was socially inept and really didn't know what the hell he was doing.

It does start as rape, but Ricky can't even do that properly, so Lisa takes control and seduces him. Also, the fact everything that takes place is a 'game' muddies the water is even further.

[Gojirosan]

Interesting replies, thank you.

On the one hand I despise the scene and think it is a huge, deeply offensive error of judgment on the part of time of budgetarily constrained film-makers. It's Ortolani's "inappropriate" music that troubles me the most, the images are consistent with the film around it (if a bit too "lush" for such subject matter).

...and yet...it is precisely this jarring juxtaposition of "romance" and "rape" that makes it one of the most horrifying rape scenes in the whole of cinema. It could be that it is an interesting, unique approach to get across the horror of sexual violence - as powerful in it's very different way to the brutal, cold, hard-edged "bad trip" visuals and pounding music of, for example, the rape of the nun in Bad Lieutenant.

Or it could be that the subtleties were an accidental effect. the "rush job" nature of the film is apparent throughout, so did/could they have worked out such subtle meaning to one scene when the rest of the film is just (to my eyes, I am not the biggest fan of the picture) brutish exploitation.

If nothing else, it makes you think, and that is what I think films ought to do.

Again, thanks for the responses.

[the blob]

I agree with what Robert said above. When you've seen the film once and know the end, that scene loses a lot of it's strength as a 'rape' scene, for me at least. It's very indicative of what much later becomes a strong shift in balance and the lengths Lisa goes to in order to get to that point.

[JAMIOUSE]

Any news from the BBFC yet?

[Daemonia]

Originally Posted by JAMIOUSE

Any news from the BBFC yet?

They haven't finished their seance yet. They want to get Ferman's opinion from beyond the veil of death.

You know, as bad as censorship was under Ferman, he was like the pantomime villain who we all loved to hate. I still think it sad he died so young. Do you think watching all those uncut horror films expedited his exit from this world?

[Nosferatu@Cult Labs]

I hope not or most of us will be heading for an early grave!

[bedorca]

Originally Posted by Daemonia

They haven't finished their seance yet. They want to get Ferman's opinion from beyond the veil of death.

You know, as bad as censorship was under Ferman, he was like the pantomime villain who we all loved to hate. I still think it sad he died so young. Do you think watching all those uncut horror films expedited his exit from this world?

It is only early morning but this post has made my day already