SHAM029/SHAM200 - New York Ripper HD: The BBFC Verdict

[Andydn]

Cheers for that mate, Its a disappointment when a nasty scene is trimmed but more incidental footage added to make 'longest available version' which has happened on a few films.

[bdc]

I think the original intention was to make this the longest uncut version but the BBFC wanted the nipple scene cut again (it was resubmitted recently)...

[Nosferatu@Cult Labs]

It was resubmitted again for this Blu-ray release and, when the ruling came back the same as the last one, Shameless appealed but the BBFC were not going to change their minds on that one.

[Daemonia]

Having read through this thread (and it got a bit heated, didn't it?) I thought I'd chuck in my thoughts on the matter. Firstly, I won't and never will defend censorship cuts, except where it's clearly a contravention of law. But I will defend Shameless and their enterprising efforts. I think we need to look at the history of this film in the UK so see just how far we've come. We've gone from the film prints being physically escorted out of the country at the behest of dear old Ferman to now anticipating an HD release that can be freely viewed by all and sundry (providing they are of age). Now I know it's annoying that the BBFC have cut a few seconds from it and I won't defend that, but we're in one hell of a better position than we were even 10 short years ago. You see, my logic is this, companies like Shameless keep pushing the envelope. I have no doubt that one day this film will be passed uncut, but there has to be a bit of a push first. Just look at how I Spit On Your Grave is progressing, each time it's resubmitted the cuts become less and less demanding. Unfortunately that's the game that has to be played with the BBFC here in the UK. Yes, it's far from ideal, but I for one quite like the idea of casual buyers picking up NYR and can only imagine their jaws hitting the floor at the sheer outrageousness of it. That can only be a good thing - and those interested enough will look up the film on the internet and will no doubt go on to avail themselves of an uncut copy. Those that don't probably won't care if it's cut or not and will continue along quite happily oblivious to the fact. Bottom line: Shameless are a business. Yes, they want to please the fans, but they also have to turn a profit and if this was a profitable title previously it stands to reason they'll release it again in HD. That's simple business sense. The guys at Shameless have to earn a living too, you know? Almar's a fine chap and a fellow fan, but this is his livelihood and I'm acutely aware that negative press could have an impact on that. So rather than be negative, let's be a bit more balanced and have a bit of perspective here. If you don't want to buy a BBFC-censored version, then fine. But let's not be too hard on Shameless here and the people that work for them, who strive to deliver to us, the fans, the best product possible. I mean, bloody hell, Bay of Blood on BD was more than I could have ever hoped for and it's a stunning release. Let's cut them some slack, this is the fault of the BBFC, not on the part of Shameless. Let's bear that in mind when discussing this.

Now...will I buy this? Probably not on BD, as I picked up the BU release ages ago before this was even a twinkle in the eye of Shameless, but I will pick it up on standard DVD for sure, just to see the extras and the extra footage and to have a copy of the UK version. That's my position, anyway. And I hope it does really well for Shameless. And...well...you never know, I may well end up grabbing a BD copy. I can be impulsive sometimes.

[Andydn]

You definitly have some valid points but personally I think that if a 'casual viewer' picks up any of the films that we all dearly love, but part of the ecense of why we love them has been cut, will that turn the casual viewer into a fan or just another person that sees these movies as dull and pointless. If a film cant be release in its entirety, then release something that can be, because we all agree that any cuts that are made are usually ridiculous and unnessesary but DO render the film less enjoyable. If we are true fans of these movies and also respect the directors whether it be Argento or Bianchi (lol), and we then agree to buy cut versions of their films then the BBFC have won.
Now I think Shameless are superb, their releases are great... apart from the ones with cuts, sorry but tracking down uncut films and looking forward to them being released is part of the fun, buying a cut version isnt - especially when we are free to import region 1 dvds too. If no one agrees then say so and thats fine, but Shameless could be wasting time and money releaseing cut prints because I for one wont buy them.
Im interested to hear peoples thoughts on this.

[PaulD]

I don't really think it's wasting people's time and money. Obviously some people on here won't buy (or re-buy as the case probably is) a cut version of New York Ripper on BD if they have an uncut Blue Underground version and that's fine. However, there are a whole load of people out there who might be casually browsing the horror section of HMV, haven't heard of Lucio Fulci but are drawn to the yellow bluray case and think "Hmm..this looks interesting. I'll give it a go" and won't be bothered at all about the cuts.

[Andydn]

Did you read my post at all? - Im not talking about wasting peoples time and money, I was saying Shameless could be wasting their own time and money as people such as myself will not buy a cut film. As for someone browsing through the DVDs in HMV and randomly coming across such films as New York Ripper - well I covered that too! - They will be buying a product that doesnt do what it says on the tin whilst also supporting the BBFC!

[Peter Neal]

Personally speaking, I don't subscribe to the "Uncut Only!" view at all, not the least because I like to own varying versions of my favourite movies, so if I'm in the mood for a little variation or get interested in the impact of different edits of "controversial" scenes, I opt to watch a "censored" version from time to time.
Being used to the German brand of movie-censorship for which films more than often still have to get cut by several minutes to earn an "FSK 18", I find it hard to get too fussed over the 19 secs cut from the "Shameless" release of NYR, which still wouldn't stand a chance whatsoever to get legally released in that form in Germany, let alone being sold or displayed publicly in big "mainstream" chains or advertised in internet stores like "amazon.de".
Anyway, a sold "cut" release is no loss to neither the "uncut community", who're NOT forced to pick it up, nor "uncut labels" in the US (or Austrian) territory, as those who're buying it wouldn't have either bothereed with a few extra snippets of gore on R1 anyway or do own the uncut version already and are attracted to double-dip for exclusive extras or neat packaging.
So there's no real harm done to anybody...and if I wasn't such a completist I would have been perfectly happy with my slightly censored UK DVDs of "Maniac" and "NYR", as the cuts are really only obvious to those "in the know".
And as far as the cut UK releases of "Tombs of the Blind Dead" and "Mark of the Devil" go, I've been really satisfied, so I didn't bother to import from the US or anywhere else, as just from my pov, those two don't really "win" much extra viewing value through some more extra seconds I hardly miss when watching them.
But that's just my own take.

In the particular case of the UK edit of "NYR", it's safe to say that the film still delivers in the gore department for those, who're not familiar with every bloody frame, so I find it hard to imagine anybody ramdomly picking it up and being particularly disappointed by that purchase.
It's a far cry from the 90's when "VIPCO's" VHS releases of the Fulci classics came devoid of virtually all the splattery highlights.
That was a different era altogether, so I agree 100 % with Daemonia on that the BBFC and UK genre releases having come a long way in the right direction since then!

[PaulD]

Originally Posted by Andydn

Did you read my post at all? - Im not talking about wasting peoples time and money, I was saying Shameless could be wasting their own time and money as people such as myself will not buy a cut film. As for someone browsing through the DVDs in HMV and randomly coming across such films as New York Ripper - well I covered that too! - They will be buying a product that doesnt do what it says on the tin whilst also supporting the BBFC!

I did read your post, just misinterpreted the essence I guess.

I think it's a bit short-sighted to see this as the BBFC winning though - I'm not their greatest advocator by any means but they do what they have to do and for now we have to accept that a UK release of NYR will have cuts. I certainly don't see buying this release as supporting the BBFC, if anything it's supporting Shameless who have done their best to bring out a complete-as-possible UK release. I definitely don't think this release will prove to be a waste of Shameless' resources though.

[Andydn]

This is def interesting to get other peoples views on, so far Im in a minority!